Clearly Some people have too much money and not enough brains

I'd love to see the e-mails of graders saying its just a flip of a coin as well I agree such an e-mail from people who grade coins would be a revelation to many!!

 

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Never forget: "It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti

 

The should just sticker the coin

 

what do you mean by that? Do you have an email from Jim as well?

Speedy

 

Lmao

 

No, it is in his book that I quoted earlier. But if you want, we can email him about it and question is observation that he made in print in his book.

Ruben

 

Once again for you view pleasure....


http://www.coingrading.com/crackout1.html

High End vs. Low End
The Bust-Out Game Only a very tiny percentage of all coins in PCGS, NGC or other similar holders are likely to be graded higher by those services if broken out and resubmitted. A larger (though still relatively small) percentage, if broken out and resubmitted, are likely to be graded lower. This is because most of the coins on the market which the experts consider undergraded have already been resubmitted. Obviously, the more valuable a coin is, the more likely it is to have been resubmitted the optimal number of times to receive its ultimate grade. To illustrate, let's imagine a coin which three graders out of ten would consider MS-65. The other seven would grade it MS-64. Based on probability statistics there is approximately a one in five chance that a random selection of 3 graders from this mix will result in at least 2 of the 3 graders grading the coin MS-65 thus insuring an MS-65 rating by PCGS or NGC. If the coin is worth $50 in MS-64 and $150 in MS-65, most dealers would just sell it in the MS-64 holder - possibly as a PQ But, if the coin is worth $300 in MS-64 and $1,000 in MS-65, chances are the dealer will resubmit it until the grading service finally grades it MS-65.
Needless to say, given the cost in time and fees of resubmissions, a dealer's ability to predict how other experts would grade a particular coin is very important to the bust-out game. Since the vast majority of coins would grade the same and some coins would grade lower only a few dealers can consistently make this a profitable venture. As an example, consider for a moment the above example. If one more person out of the 10 had graded the coin MS-64, this would have changed the odds to about one in eighteen, rendering most bust-out scenarios unprofitable.
Note: The consumer is probably not harmed by this, because the market takes this bust-out activity into account. Obviously, if a coin could never be broken out of a holder once sealed, MS-65's would be considerably rarer than they are now. The prices bid on the ANE system would be much higher as a result. Therefore, if a buyer purchases a coin based on the prices reported today on ANE (or any other sight-unseen bidding system), suffice it to say that he (or she) is only paying for a "low-end" coin that has most likely achieved its ultimate grade.


http://www.coingrading.com/author1.html


About the Author Jim Halperin was born in Boston, Massachusetts in 1952, and has been a professional numismatist since 1969, when he opened Jim's Stamp & Coin Shop, in Cochituate, Mass. He attended Harvard College, but took a leave of absence (which so far has turned out to be a permanent one) in 1971, halfway through his sophomore year, to become a full time coin dealer. In late 1982, Jim Halperin moved to Dallas, Texas, to form a partnership with long time friend and arch-rival, Steve Ivy.
Jim Halperin and Steve Ivy's company, Heritage Capital Corporation, is now possibly the largest and certainly one of the most well respected coin and stamp firms in the world. It's divisions and affiliates include Heritage Rare Coin Galleries, Heritage Coin Wholesale, Heritage Numismatic Auctions, U.S. Rare Coin Exchange, Steve Ivy Philatelic Auctions, U.S. Tangible Investment Corporation and the Numismatic Certification Institute.
Jim is considered to be among the world's foremost experts on US. coins and coin grading. His other interests include late 19th and 20th century paintings and sculpture, art nouveau glass, comic art, weightlifting and racquetball.
Jim currently lives near Dallas, Texas with his wife, Gayle, a professor of dance. They met in mid-1982 in New York City (appropriately at the Lone Star Cafe). Gayle had been dancing professionally for a modern dance company in New York City, and also taught at Yale University, New Haven, Connecticut. They have been blissfully married since 1984, and Gayle now teaches dance technique at Texas Woman's University.
Jim and Gayle have also set up a foundation based in Dallas to promote the teaching of daily health education courses in public schools.
This book's forerunner, the N.C.I. Grading Guide was Jim's first book, although he has written dozens of articles for numismatic publications. Jim hopes to write several other educational numismatic books, and is presently looking for ideas and suggestions of topics for his next book.
Any correspondence should be addressed to:
Jim Halperin
3500 Maple Ave. 17th Floor
Dallas, TX 75219-3941
e-mail: Jim@Heritageauctions.com

 

Ruben,

Are you saying that the majority of the 70's have been submitted multiple times in order to achieve their maximum grade and are actually low end for the grade and should be in 69 holders. Therefore if they were resubmitted, the probability would be that they would be downgraded to their appropriate grade. If you are that would be an new twist on your ever changing rant.

You first stated that the graders really can't tell and just flip a coin to decide. Are you now saying that they are actually applying a standard which they themselves disagree upon which accounts for the inability to achieve repeatable results?

I know you won't respond to my post, but maybe someone else could pose my question to you.

FWIW, I very much doubt the most moderns are being submitted multiple times in order to achieve a bump from 69 to 70. The price difference for most issues is too small to warrant the effort. The crackout game is usually applied to conditional rarities where there is a huge price jump from grade to grade. The 1934-D Peace Dollar from MS64 to MS65 comes to my mind immediately. The 1934-D jumps from $600 to $1800 from MS64 to MS65 make it very worthwhile to seek out PQ MS64 coins and resubmit them several times until the coin is graded MS65.

Another coin that would qualify would be the start of this mess. The 1977-S Proof IKE. I am positive that many have tried to resubmit their PF69's hoping for a 70. Look how well it worked for them, the count stands at 13.

 

Do not have to ask the question. You just did.

 

I think he is blocking my posts.

 

I know that. By my posting that, it put you post in mine and he gets to see your post even when he is blocking yours. Or at least I think he does until he starts blocking mine also.

 

I didn't know you could block posts...learning new things everyday. :secret:

 

Best case scenario is that he blocks everyone who disagrees with him and it becomes a very lonely place for him. I don't think it will stop him from posting since I have seen him post 5 times in one thread without a response from anyone, but at least we won't see completely ridiculous responses to our logical posts.

 

You have an ignor list. I have about 8 people in it at this point. Makes life more enjoyable.

Ruben

 

Hm, never knew it was there. I doubt I'll ever need it though.

 

Well, most people who have gotten into my ignor list have done so in the politics forum. I've only added 2 outside of that, both this week. And there was one guy I put there because I got sick of his stock reports.

Ruben

 

I don't think I've ever gone into the politics forum. I know I opted in at one point but never chose to go in there...I've learned from the past that flame wars start too easy when you start discussing politics.

 

Richie,

This guy has proven that he can get into an argument over anything. Just to clarify, he blocked the forum member with the most TOTW nominations after accusing him of trolling. If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is. I have never blocked anyone on any forum, but then again, I am a man.

 

calm down.


there are actually 2 different markets out there. one which he quoted and another one for modern comems. there is alaos a thrid market with world coins but i wont get into that ( thats the worst)

but yes he cant take the 2 and use the same writeup its comparing apples to oranges IMHO

 

oh i used it to get rid of the only guy who has ever annoyed me on CT and believe me we get some tough cookies here