Cleaning silver dimes darkened by old album

different strokes for different folks, but artificially toning the coin is nuimastically altering the finish.

Ruben

 

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Wow, that opinion is a little off the beaten path. Most consider toning damage and dipping restoration.

FWIW, I have never seriously tried to intentionally tone a coin. Searching for a beautifully toned coin is much more fun than trying to make one IMO.

 

We're back to artificial toning and cleaning/dipping which can be OK, or not. While I have never done either AT or C/D I know I have a coin or two that have been cleaned and that's OK with me because it's not garish or unsightly or phony-looking. It's just the way it is. And, hopefully, I paid accordingly.

Hey, I've got a jug of pure acetone that I've been meaning to clean some gunk (PVC) off of the coin for the last 5 months. I haven't done it yet. (My bad) I know I should at least clean the PVC stuff off.

There are many of my circ. coins that could use a acetone bath to get the debris off of that I haven't gotten around to. I'll deal with these coins later.

The thing is you have to make up your own standards as to how you will treat your coins. Clean, Dip, AT, wire brush (ouch), Whiz(BOO), whatever, they are yours to cherish, or ruin as you see fit.

Just keep in mind that these coin are rare and precious, sometimes unique, pieces of art that deserve better than mutilation and destruction.

Bruce

 

Another way to put this in perspective is that I would prefer to own a silver dollar last touched by a miner in California purchasing dry goods in town before returning to his claim over one handled by a coin doctor dipping and/or ATing a coin a few years ago. Sometimes originality trumps eye appeal.

 

desertgem and others,

A 1922 Peace dollar ain't worth much to begin with so yes dip it and any common Roosevelt dime ain't worth much (as it is in this case) so yes, dip it.
I've stated all the caveat's already before as they are many.
The central question here was, "what can be done about this dark toning on this Roosevelt dime? The answer is "plenty" Dip it. I explained how to do it, if using a plastic spoon break a hole in it or hold the coin against the spoon with a wood toothpick. Coin tongs are better that's what I use - 1/2 gram, 500 milligrams is a pinch of baking soda in 8 oz. of water will leave no residue when then rinsed again in distilled water.

But to answer your inquiry that dipping (or conserving) is to enhance the value, no.
I never dip solely to enhance the value - the main consideration is restoring the surfaces of the coin to a degree more stable, and more attractive than they were. When a coin is dark, black or dark grey it is at the end of the toning cycle. It will (are already has) started to eat into the surface of the coin. By dipping (or conserving) you are first attempting to stop (arrest) the damage and second to help expose what mint luster that can be restored under the toning. Yes dipping will remove a bit of the surface - that's why we do it but not very much (if done properly).
The decision to dip or not to dip, is at the heart of the issue.
I've already said that as I am making a decision, (about if to treat a coin) it is always "Coin Specific" - I would not have treated that 63 DDR if I did not believe it was possible and would probably enhance it's desirability and help preserve it for future die variety specialists, ie: "it was a dog then now it ain't a dog no more".
If I were asked about 1889 CC dollar or 1916 DDO Buffalo nickel the response and the ascertation would be a completely different process and end result.
Come on guys/gals we were asked about a Roosevelt Dime for heavens sake not 1792 half disme. I would not of attempted to restore the SS Central America gold coins - I don't know how. Therein lies the lesson -
I would not attempt to wax, clean or otherwise do anything to a antique silver vase - I do not know how and am fairly certain it would be harmful.
But a Roosevelt dime?? There is no downside, none whatsoever.
When a member asks how he may improve a common silver coin with dark album toning the automatic response should never be the "oh, don't ever clean a coin" - "we don't recommend ever cleaning coins". That is not only "not helpful" it is not true - we are then (with our prejudice's in place) giving him/her bad advice that helps no one but preserves a commonly held misconception that's been bantered around without being questioned for too long.

Benjamin, H. (hope this is clearer) Peters III

 

Agreed!

 

hahahah Thankfully i like white coins of the non dipped variety

all hail GD

post of the day

another gem 2 in one day GD i must say i am impressed

 

do not clean your coins ever!!!!!!!!!

 

Yes there was a time in history when people cleaned coins. Yes they cleaned oil paintings, antique furnature, etc. I once made a bench grinder stand out of a sewing machine table that was about 90 years old. Destruction of historic relics is what is going on in the Middle East. So we should follow thier lead? Cleaning a coin could ruin it as much as what they are doing to ancient relics in those areas. Common practice in your life. I could not even imagine how things are there. Glad I'm here.
Washing and waxing a car is rather about as close to taking care of antiques as a rocket ship compared to a horse and buggy. Nothing in common. Obviously never watched the Antique Road Show. People want originality, not cleaned, painted, redone historic items. If that was the norm, people would be at the museums giving the mummys a bath. Hey look, the Mona Lisa Painting is fading. Lets run it through a car wash.

 

AND that is no exageration about cars. One of my cars is a 68 Newport Convetible with about 32K original. Not long ago I had it at a auto parts store to pick up something. Several people asked if it was OK to look it over. One asked if I would left the hood. I did. Several OH, NO's erupted. It was harshly mentioned I had replaced the heater hoses with orange ones. EVERYONE knows Chrysler always used black. A few years ago I replaced the tires on my 67 Imperial. Put radials on and was rudely told that is almost against the law you know. I did put Biased back on.
The thing about cleaning coins that most forget is the worst part is what is removed. If the contaminated part is from a chemically altering substance, the metal from the coin may well be combined with that substance. The removal of that would actually take some of the original metal of the coin with it leaving possible marks, pot, scratches, etc.

 

And when you state WE, I suppose your represently the entire coin collecting world?????
So if I dip a coin in battery acid for a week, it is just dipped? If it was a cent it well now be a half cent but only dipped?

 

Thank you all for the advice.

The last person to have handled these coins before me would have been
my grandmother who put them into the album.

My mom gave me grandmother's coin collection as she and my sister were
not interested in coins and I was.

:smile

 

i agree for the most part but it still bothers me that dipping and cleaning are treated separately although technically they are the same. care to shed some light on why the market behaves that way for example a TPG will grade a highly dipped coin but not a highly cleaned one

 

That is not entirely correct. Coins are dipped to remove toning. Toning is not a "chemically altering substance". It is the result of a chemical reaction (oxidation) of the coin surface with a reacting agent. In the case of silver, it is sulfur that reacts with the silver to create a layer of silver sulfide on the surface of the coin. Essentially, toning is corrosion. In the beginning stages the silver sulfide layer in various thickness levels creates a rainbow effect. If unchecked, the silver sulfide layer will increase in thickness over time until the coin is black. Once this stage is reached, the only way to help the coin is to dip the coin and completely remove the silver sulfide layer from the surface of the coin. It is true that you will lose some silver and it is true that you may reveal scars that the extensive toning has left on the surface of the coin.

However, the main purposes of dipping a coin is to improve the visual appearance (eye appeal) and stabilize the coin surface (stop corrosion). The draw back is that in the process you can ruin the luster by overdipping the coin thereby eliminating the flow lines that create the luster in the first place. But I ask you, have you ever seen a black toned coin. You can't see the luster anyway due to the thickness of the toning. A black toning layer will severely mute the luster of the coin. So if the luster is already gone, what is the harm in dipping the coin?

Before you answer that question, remember that there is no bigger toning freak on this board than me. My point is that there are definitely times that dipping a coin is appropriate and necessary. To believe otherwise is IMO, naive.

 

Oh Carl, you know that is not what he means.

Ruben

 

dipping is essential for conservation but you are an intelligent guy so ill ask you. do you sincerely believe a coin will survive forever? no matter what we do all coins have a shelf life ranging from a few years to a few hundred at the end of which they will go back in the dust. sometimes i think we take this grading and cleaning stuff too seriously because of our short life spans. just a thought

 

Actually, coins exist from their inception in civilization. It is likely that coins will exist for collecting long after they are gone as a means of commerce...which is fast approaching.

Ruben

 

Don't you dare clean that coin!!!

It was placed in the album 60 years ago and its stayed there ever since just waiting for someone to come along and enjoy it...

There's family history in every shade of that toning! One day you'll be proud to pass it along to your children and you'll be able to tell them that "great-grandma put this coin in this album "XX number" of years ago and its remained there ever since".

 

Dipping coins

I won't dip any coin, they will re tone anyway after they been dipped.so way devalue your coins?????