cleaning silver coins with aluminum foil, baking soda, and boiling water.

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by riff, Feb 11, 2013.

  1. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Did you even see the post I reacted to, or was it removed before you read it? For the record, I'm extremely angry at myself for losing it to the extent that I did, but I used far cooler language than I wanted to. :)

    If I offended you with that, please accept my apologies. It's not my normal demeanor, but the post I reacted to was totally inflammatory and trollish. Worse yet, it rationalized and lent credence to a cardinal violation of sensible numismatics.

    The thing which bothers some about older threads being resurrected is that the knowledge contained therein might have changed in the meantime, making the thread spread disinformation. Moreover, the newer members or unregistered readers just happening by might be intimidated by the thought of having to go through a multipage thread, and bypass it, losing the chance to learn.

    As regards the topic at hand: The process is called "reduction." It works. Trouble is, it *only* reverses the process resulting in the silver sulfide "tarnish" on the coin, and it'll result in a pretty blotchy coin if anything else is clinging to the coin which the reduction doesn't remove. The formerly-tarnished surfaces will look obviously cleaned by comparison. The same could happen with untarnished surfaces which have "aged" for different reasons than the silver sulfide process - the result will be a coin which looks obviously cleaned.

    This, like every successful conservation technique, is a very niche use case technique. I use it only (and almost always instead of dip) in those few situations where dip might actually be realistically called for - Mint State coins (or in rare cases sliders) which are otherwise untouched by any contaminant.

    Heavycam.monstervam, your Franklin might be a good candidate for learning the technique. You're only out a few bucks if it blows up in your face. If you attempt it, mix the baking soda and hot (no need for "boiling") water first. The salt mentioned in some sources is most normally used during electrolysis, a similar process to this one.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
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  3. Big Money

    Big Money Member

    Yes, and now it has red edited in it.
     
  4. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    That is the best reason I've seen for much of the "don't clean your coins" advice. Clear and concise.
     
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  5. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Oh, that was my own reply where I used the term which offended you (as it probably should have, it was pretty offensive), and a Moderator rightly edited it out. The post I typed that in reaction to is completely gone now. It was post #23 - you'll note a number in every post at the bottom right; your post which I'm quoting here was Post #42.
     
  6. Big Money

    Big Money Member

    I guess I was being too sensitive. I don't see any reason to be mad at anyone here and when I was finally able to read the rules I agree that personal attacks don't belong here. I did not know your post was three years ago (til moderator told me) and you have probably changed a lot since then.
     
  7. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    No, that all happened tonight. The person who set me off was the one who raised this thread from the dead. Look to the bottom left of each post for the date/time it was posted. I have no excuse for my posting save extreme provocation - it was bad enough that a Moderator saw fit to remove that person's whole post.

    Even worse, I'm a highly experienced Moderator myself; I've been Moderating online forums continuously since the late 1990's and still do at two locations not connected to numismatics. I really have no excuse.
     
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  8. Big Money

    Big Money Member

    Thanks for all your instructions. Let's agree to go back to "coin talk." Goodnight.
     
  9. Blissskr

    Blissskr Well-Known Member

    From my experience don't add salt it's completely unnecessary. Also coins cleaned or conserved what ever you want to call it in this way don't end up as bad as people are making them out to be if in a nice enough AUish condition to start with. I'd say its safer than dipping as I've never turned a coin chalk gray using this method no matter how long I've let it soak. I will say that I have in the past scratched a few coins when I used shredded up aluminum foil with boiling water. Now I use a nicely folded flat sheet of foil on the bottom of the container I use and as long as the coins are touching that it will work.

    I tend to use this method primarily on dirty junk silver but have used it on some nicer coins as well without issue. The thing is if you use it on circulated coins they are going to come out looking 'too clean' as it will remove mostly all the circulation character from the coins. Depending on your personal views they may look OK, but in general they're not going to be market acceptable except as bullion. But any AU and up coins will generally come out looking much better if they have unattractive toning to start with. But seriously for a couple bucks it's worth the experiment trying on some 'junk' silver in both pure junk form and AU and see for yourself the results at most you'd be out a couple bucks as someone else mentioned.
     
  10. midas1

    midas1 Exalted Member

    "Why? some coins NEED a cleaning."

    You really stepped into it big time.
    If you want to get things really interesting
    add coin grading to your comments.

    cleaning/grading can be really "emotional" issues.
     
  11. midas1

    midas1 Exalted Member

    you can always add some sand if you're not satisfied with the results!
     
  12. chicken man

    chicken man Doesn't have a clue.

    ...Wouldn't you want to use distilled water with the baking soda/aluminum foil method, rather than tap water full of minerals?
     
  13. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    This will probably make you all cringe! When I stared collecting coins 30 years ago I actually used Ajax to clean some of my first errors. The very first error I ever found was a huge Lamination on the Obverse.. I sent it to NGC and they gave it a Details Grade with Improperly Cleaned stated!
    :banghead::banghead::banghead:.. I was a teen and didn't know any better :(
    3443070-002+1.JPG
     
  14. Cascade

    Cascade CAC Variety Nerd

    Wow, sorry I missed the deleted comment as the one left that revived this thread was arrogent and condescending enough in its own right.
     
  15. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Not really. Yes, tap water has the potential to leave deposits on a coin - of course, if your tap water is that bad, it's leaving those deposits on your sinks, killing your faucets every few years and you don't want to drink it, but for the sake of argument I freely concede that it's possible.

    That is irrelevant because if you're doing it right the tap water won't be in contact with the coin long enough to matter. The indispensable, must-have tool for the coin conservator (indeed, for anyone who purchases raw coins) is acetone, and that's the very first thing you should learn how to use. It should be the first and last thing which ever touches a coin, and as long as anything you use tap water on always finishes in an acetone rinse, you don't need to worry about what "deposits" on the coin because the acetone rinse will remove it in solution.
     
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  16. chicken man

    chicken man Doesn't have a clue.

    ....uuuuuh yes, yes, and yes. Full of calcium with some iron mixed in. But I've been drinking it since '89 when I bought the house. Looking forward to kidney & gall stones.

    Thats why I need GOOD coins.....to pay for my health care! :nurse: :dead:
     
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  17. Cascade

    Cascade CAC Variety Nerd

    Funny you say that. My dad used to get stones and he's a huge water drinker. A few years ago he switched to drinking distilled water and hasn't had a stone since
     
  18. murty

    murty Junior Member

    Super Dave.......I have seen many of your posts and your contributions/advice has been an invaluable asset. We all have some tough moments and believe me some of the redundancy can tick anyone off.
     
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  19. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    Kudos for your objective discussion of one of numerous "processes" that will reverse the oxidizing/sulphating et al environmental degradation conditions. Because of various factors, including surface tension, "dips" can't normally achieve the results of this process in conjunction with other "proprietary" processes. I believe commercial endeavors as NCS/ANACS/PCGS "conservation/restoration" (i.e. "cleaning") services apply same/similar processes for a fee, to facilitate an acceptable grade. These services, I believe, don't disclose their processes to facilitate greater earnings. These processes aren't "nuclear science".

    I personally have examined "conservative/restorative" processes for many years, and as part of a multi-year "top-tier" TPG evaluatory process, similar to that reported in the 5/26/03 issue of Coin World, we have clandestinely submitted thru established high volume dealers, believed properly "conserved/restored" scarce date coins to receive appreciably more valuable grading. Several of the coins were previously submitted to these firms in their "bottom tier" TPG slabs (e.g. ACG), being returned with derogatory comments concerning being unfit for grading.

    I believe that current grading is a function of potential market value rather than actual coin condition and adherence to established published standards. It's believed the "top tier" TPG have established by their practices/services that "non-destructive" cleaning is acceptable.

    I believe that many neophyte collectors appreciate your learned practical post. Thanks for sharing your experience!!

    JMHO
     
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  20. midas1

    midas1 Exalted Member

    Drinking distilled water exclusively has been associated with many serious health problems including osteoporosis:

    http://www.mercola.com/article/water/distilled_water.htm
    http://www.waterbenefitshealth.com/drinking-distilled-water.html
    http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutrientschap12.pdf
     
  21. Stevearino

    Stevearino Well-Known Member

    Actually, Post #23 is still visible; just read it as I started this thread.

    Steve
     
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