Cleaning -Copper

LOL!

The owner of a collectables shop near me told me an older lady brought in her late husbands Morgan collection. She told him she cleaned the coins with Comet Cleaner to shine them up thinking they looked better and would fetch a better price. He said there were a few CC's in the collection......

 

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Safe methods can go wrong. And the main thing for Copper coins that is beneficial is NOT TO CLEAN THEM.
As to why so serious? Being a one time Chem teacher in a Junior college I saw way to may accidents with substances that are SAFE. And in SAFE invironments.
We are realistic. Here we attempt to tell things so that even a new person, a kid, some elderly person, or anyone can learn from the other members. Giving suggestions to people about something that could be mistaken, misguided or wrongfully attempted should not be considered serious.
Why so serious. Although this is a hobby and should be fun, with a little erroneous information someone could try something that they shouldn't.
Again, I just tell people DON'T CLEAN COINS.

 

I find that rubbing copper on sandpaper seems to do the trick.

 

I acually think most of us are in the real world and know that a lot of cleaning goes on.

I have rarely cleaned coins from my personal collection. The harshest treatment those got was Blue Ribbon. I started a thread on it WAY back and met some harsh criticism. I only used it because both of my local dealers used it.

Now I work for one of those dealers and, yes, Blue Ribbon is used on copper and nickel on occasion. Acetone is used as well and silver does get a dip at times. I might note that a lot of dipped coins go to NGC or PCGS where they get slabbed. So yes it does happen.

However I do not suggest it to those entering the hobby and I haven't gone on a "cleaning binge" since I actually started working in a shop.
Now that I'm there I have a tendency to buy a nice, "ugly" coin and leave it as it is. Totally original and I get first look on many occasions.

Conversely I have become somewhat adept at cleaning coins. This is not a "goal" of mine. It's a job. They are not my coins and it takes practice and I can't honestly tell you what any coin might look like in 20 years. Some I just refuse to touch as it only takes one little mistake to DEVALUE a coin.

As of late I've been restoring Buffalo nickels for fun. I've found some good dates. I've sold some actually but with the understanding that I have chemically altered these coins. I sell them cheap.

So there are many ways to look at this whole picture. I haven't cleaned a coin of my own for ages in any way. I clean them at work when asked (most times) but I do NOT recommend it to anyone.

Think about it. A coin starts to look decent and patina is still evident. Well, a novice will want to make it look better. More work can kill a beautiful coin. I've killed a few "commons" myself. That's how I've learned and they weren't my coins.

You say your methods are safe but how safe are they to the beginner? What are the long term effects?

I think I've lain out some pretty good reasons to NOT encourage cleaning.

 

Some think, that coins are made for fun and frolic,
And so do I! And so do I!
Some think, it well to be all economic,
To sell and buy; to sell and buy;
But I, I love to spend my time in singing,
Some joyous song, as I search along,
To set, the air with music bravely ringing,
Is far from wrong! Is far from wrong!
Listen, listen, echoes sound afar!
Listen, listen, echoes sound afar!
Funiculi, funicula, funiculi, funicula!
Echoes sound afar, funiculi, funicula!

Copyright 2009 Eddie "Mario Lanza" Spin

 

Give the guy at least a quarter-ounce of credit, he told the truth.:thumb:

 

OK, I will get that later. Cheryl

 

Oooh, looks like the lady's getting fresh.

OK, do you want it serious? It's been said countless times, already. DON'T CLEAN YOUR COINS! Unless you're just in it for the short-term, the economics, the sell and the buy, if you will. But, if you're the other kind, a collector, in it primarily just for the fun and frolic, let them alone. At least, the good ones. The bad ones, who cares about those, anyway? But, I've been there, done that, even with solutions as inert as mineral oil; and, I agree with Clembo and Just Carl, even these are going to look "worked-on," over time. In fact, I'll show you some examples, comparison-pictures, if you ask me real politely. But, even the dirt. If it's a good coin, and you can't remove it with just a [distilled] water-soak, fugheddaboudit. Do you know what I call that, on a good coin? Pay dirt. Just think of it like that. Good luck!

 

Oooh, looks like the lady's getting fresh. I am Not getting fresh.

The English version of the song is subtitled "A Merry Life".
Some think the world is made for fun and frolic,
And so do I! And so do I!
Some think it well to be all melancholic,
To pine and sigh; to pine and sigh;
But I, I love to spend my time in singing,
Some joyous song, some joyous song,
To set the air with music bravely ringing
Is far from wrong! Is far from wrong!
Listen, listen, echoes sound afar!
Listen, listen, echoes sound afar!
Funiculì, funiculà, funiculì, funiculà!
Echoes sound afar, funiculì, funiculà!

Ah me! 'tis strange that some should take to sighing,
And like it well! And like it well!
For me, I have not thought it worth the trying,
So cannot tell! So cannot tell!
With laugh, with dance and song the day soon passes
Full soon is gone, full soon is gone,
For mirth was made for joyous lads and lasses
To call their own! To call their own!
Listen, listen, hark the soft guitar!
Listen, listen, hark the soft guitar!
Funiculì, funiculà, funiculì, funiculà!
Hark the soft guitar, funiculì, funiculà

 

Dear Harry,

I hope you mean harshly cleaned coins. there are not of uncleaned coins left in the world just like our conserved paintings.

 

Yup, that's the one. Written by newspaper journalist and songwriter Giuseppe “Peppino” Turco and set to music by composer Luigi Denza, in 1880, this little number was actually (or, supposedly?) a marketing stunt to encourage the timid tourists of Pompeii to throw caution to the wind and take a ride (a chance?) on the newly-built funicular railway to the top of Mount Vesuvius. You see, the City wasn't making very much money off the tourists when they were just standing there in the streets, looking up at the volcano, and so, they built this expensive contraption...and yet, only to have discovered, everybody was afraid to get on it. This little light-hearted musical score evidently did the trick (...as story goes, anyway).

 

Eddiespin,
I am curious about before and after pictures of coins soaked in mineral oil or what have you. Very curious?

 

OK, let me begin by clarifying a few things. I said I have "examples, comparison-pictures." I don't have any before and after pictures of the same coins. These comparison-pictures compare the water-cleaned coins to the mineral oil-cleaned coins. Say about 12-15 years elapsed-time since these coins were all cleaned.

A little more on my "unscientific method." I was cleaning coins, not conducting some double-blind study on the long-term effects of mineral oil on coin surfaces. It just turns out, I'm able to compare these two groups of coins, after all these years, and draw some conclusions. You should also note, I got all these coins, all at once, in a bag of about 1000 "uncirculated" cents. That is to say, that's how the seller at the flea market had represented the bag. The majority turned out to be anywhere from VF-EF, and there were indeed a few that were uncirculated. Every one of them, though, had cartwheel luster, to varying degrees.

Continuing on, got these home, dumped them out, and separated-out the ones I thought needed cleaning. Some of those were pretty encrusted. Basically, I gave that whole bunch a water bath for about a day or so, then removed each coin, individually, and brushed them off under warm, running tap water, with a paint brush, something like that. I then let them dry, and put the ones away that pretty much cleaned-up, while dumping the rest, the stubborn cases, into a plastic bucket of mineral oil. Put the lid on that. Maybe changed the oil one or two times as the foreign material loosened and I could see it in the suspension. Give that anywhere, I'd estimate, from about 4-6 months. Then, took them out, put them in water for a couple of days to dilute some of the oil, then rinsed and brushed each coin, individually, again, under warm, running tap water, let them dry, then put them into another bag. Even every one of these "oiled coins" had their cartwheel luster, even after all that. Fast-forward about a decade, and now the surfaces are all "flat." The coins are still "shiny," but there's no more cartwheel luster. It's a different kind of shine. OTOH, the ones I had just cleaned in water, still have their cartwheel luster.

That gets us, finally, to the pictures. The first is two piles; left pile is just water, right pile is the oil. The next two, same idea; left coins are the water coins, right coins are the oil coins. I just happened to find some same-dated coin to side-by-side-compare out of the two groups of coins. That cartwheel luster on the left was what the ones on the right used to have, even when they came out of the mineral oil.

One more thing. You shouldn't conclude from this that mineral oil is harmful to coin surfaces. The harm, if any, appears to show only after time, after a prolonged "bath." In other words, you've heard of an acid bath? This would be at the opposite end of that pH scale, a base bath. Your guess is as good as mine why some of those surfaces are apt to go "flat" over time. One theory might have to do with the difference between acid and base. An acid bath will kill any micro-organisms that may be present on a coin's surface, while a base bath will only support their growth. Guess we'll leave that one to the bio-chemists...

 

Here's that first picture that didn't upload in the previous reply...

 

Oil has no pH, you didn't give them a "base bath". The luster was lost over time due to impurites in the oil sitting on the surface all these years. Unless the coins were rinsed with a non-polar organic solvent like xylene, the oil stayed on the surface.

Micro-organisms actually prefer an acidic environment. In fact, they produce hydrogen ions and will actually lower the pH of an aqueous solution over time. An acid bath, unless it's extremely low pH (< 2), will NOT kill micro-organisms. Even that may not kill them all, they are very tough little buggers!

Sorry, but you have this all wrong....just trying to clarify a few points.

 

It is in every collector's interest to experiment with these methods so you know what to look for in cleaned copper. Just do it on circulated Lincolns of little/no value, please!

 

You might put what I said in context. “In other words, you've heard of an acid bath? This would be at the opposite end of that pH scale, a base bath.” I was saying soaking these coins in oil was closer to that end of the pH scale than the acid end.

Good guess. I’ll guess the impurities were on the coin before the coin was in the oil.

Got that right. I only soaked then rinsed them in water. I could have added vinegar to cut the oil, but didn’t think of it at the time. And I certainly didn’t think of using paint stripper on my coins back then.

Tell that to the United States Food and Drug Administration. Need a CFR citation, let me know.

We’re discussing an oil solution, here.

Well, got me, there, maybe not ALL. Good to see we have some common ground.

Yeah, first thought when I read this, thanks a lot for that.

 

Man o man, my jaw dropped when I read that advise at the beginning of this thread on how to clean copper coins.Im glad other people agree that what was indicated is just wrong, wrong, wrong.

The only added advise the author missed was how to attach a buffing disk to a home grinder, and how to whizz the crap out of them.