cleaning coinss

An EF or lower coin, especially smaller ones, should have some grime from wear, generally in the crevices of the devices ( such as lettering) and date, maybe visible with a loupe. Now if it is removed without leaving evidence of doing so, it has been "cleaned", but not detectable ( some people have developed expertise at doing this), and should not be labeled "cleaned" just because it doesn't have grime. If there are tiny scratches from say using a rose thorn or a toothpick, then it should be labeled cleaned. But with a G or AG coin, there may not be enough of a ridge to catch and hold grime any more, and so it might appear "cleaned" where it is just the result of wear. But if there are ( as Doug say above) deep lines ( especially if they are bright, indicating recently added), then even a low grade coin should be labeled as improperly cleaned.

I have a tube of almost slick barber quarters, and even though they show little grime, you can tell which has been improperly cleaned by looking at the surfaces. After a while, you don't need a loupe, just tilt it around in your hand under a good light. If you find some such coins for spot or there about, pick some that look alike and then use a piece of steel wool from the gentlest possible to harsh ( by interevals, checking the surface each time), with soap and water if you want. Probably you will notice the lines on the first or second level. It is hard to describe, but once you start to see it, you will improve each time. Hope I haven't confused you on the above.

By the way, it is much easier to add grime without notice than to remove it.Some people see grime and don't notice the fields that may have been altered.

All in my opinion
Jim

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My preference is for uncleaned circulated coins, I like the dirt and all, shows where they've been. But the dirt has to be in all the right places, outlining the devices, thus showing them better. A cleaned well circulated coin looks "washout" showing little detail or character. But that's just my opinion.

 

So basically, Dawn soap rubbed between your fingers than a good rinsing. And wahla, bright shiny silver, but not considered cleaned. That's strange. Its like taking a bath isn't considered being clean????

 

The point to a proper cleaning is it doesn’t damage the coin even under high magnification and that's hard to do. Most cleanings are going to change the coins surface, which would be considered damaged if it were detectable under magnification. I'll let someone else define what that magnification is.

 

ANACS is a grading service like PCGS, NGC and PCI.

ANACS guarantees that each coin submitted to it for grading shall be graded by Anacs grading experts in accordance with Anacs grading standards, policies and procedures. In the event the purchaser of an Anacs coin believes it has been overgraded under Anacs standards and procedures, the purchaser may submit the coin to Anacs for re-examination under a procedure which precludes the graders from being aware of the grade originally assigned.

The re-examination fee is $15.f the re-examination grade is lower than that originally assigned by Anacs, Anacs agrees to pay to the owner of the coin the difference between fair market value of the coin at the re-examination grade and the fair market value at the grade originally assigned by Anacs

 

So, if I buy a Morgan dollar in F12 condition, rubbed down by people over years time, and I rub it between my fingers, you consider that harsh cleaning? You've totally lost me now???? Isn't the reason the coin is grade as F12 because it was handled.....but you are saying if I handle it, I'm harshly cleaning it. I'm now completely confused.

 

Think of it this way-- if you rub a Fine-12 coin, and you produce a luster-like sheen on the surface, you are doing two things-- You are producing a surface look that is unnatural for the typical F-12 coin, and you are producing small lines on the surface called "hairlines" which may not be noticeable to the naked eye, but can be detected under a magnifying glass. Hairlines and unnatural tone/luster are a distraction to collectors, and can often reduce the value of the coin.

 

I've been doing some reading about 'cleaning' coins. It's a very interesting topic for collectors. 'Cleaning' is mostly not allowed but I was reading something by Halperin that said 'dipping' is allowed. If done properly it cannot be detected by the graders. He also said that at some point lots of the older coins have been cleaned. Travers says when discussing cleaning coins: "When performed by someone skilled, however, certain types of cleaning can actually retard some destructive processes and enhance a coin's appearance." He also states that immerseing a coin in water does not 'eat into' the coin to acheive its effect. He is not the only one I have heard say this, but most say that tap water is not recommended. You should use distilled water. Black tarnish does nothing to ehance the beauty of a silver coin. Even what we call 'toning' if not arrested by the proper storage of your coin in a dry, cool, airtight environment will continue to eat away at your coins. I have heard that the professional conservationists use a process called 'dripping' to 'preserve' the coin. I have been unable to find out anything about how one goes about 'dripping'. Does anyone here know how it is done or where I can find more information on it? I have tried to remove some fingerprints from a proof coin I own that were there when I bought it. Big mistake! I had no idea what I was doing. I later foud out about Koinsolv and it can remove prints, or oil from your coin without damaging if done properly. I do know that at some point if you leave a fingerprint on your coin or even a piece of dust, for any length of time it will eventually react negatively with the silver. My local dealer was showing me a fingerprint on a proof coin the other day that he said had been there for many years. The spot was turning an ugly brown.

 

A good way to "cut your teeth" on dipping silver coins, although it won't cover all types of coins you could potentially dip, is on low grade uncirculated mid 60's coins that basically sell for bullion value. If you harm the surface, and you will, little harm done, as the coins' value mostly comes from it's metal content.

 

I've attemted to explain a problem with such methods previously. Not all dish soaps are the same. Even brand names, such as Dawn, changes periodically. Manufacturers do this constantly to protect thier formulae. The Dawn soap you use today may be considerably different than tomorrow. Incredieants that are not harmfull to your dishes may be added just to confuse the competiators.
Tap water is even more of a variety. Some are from wells and contain almost anything in or on the Earth. Most city tap waters contain either Flourine or Chlorine. Main reason florist recommend allowing such water to sit for 24 hours prior to usage on plants. Some contain Salts from water softeners.
The stuff you use today on a coin with good results may totally ruin a coin tomorrow.

 

I'm not trying to twist anything. I'm just trying to understand the logic behind "cleaning coins." I've basically said that no coin should be cleaned, and that is my opinion....which can't be wrong.

And you said this, "The rule is this, coin dips are acids. You should never use them without already having the experience needed to use them. And of course the only way you are ever going to get that experience is by ruining a lot of coins and throwing a lot of money away."

So, basically for the average Joe Schmoe, you agree with me.

Plus, if the coin isn't slabbed, the average Joe Schmoe won't know the difference between a harsh cleaning and one that is acceptable. He won't know weather a coin that obviously looks clean, even though it has been rubbed down was cleaned properly or harshly. He doesn't know the expertise of the cleaner, and if they dipped the coin for the proper amount of time. So, if the coin looks "cleaned" and is rubbed down, I say avoid it.

 

Silversurfer - perhaps you need to read my inquiry again. I was inquiring about 'dripping' not dipping. I read somewhere recently that the professional coin conservationists utilize a process called 'dripping' and I wanted to know if anyone knew what it was and could explain the process. It seems that it is kept pretty close to the vest and it could perhaps even be proprietary. Ever heard of it? I could probably point you to the article if you were so inclined.

 

I'd like to see the article, do you have a link?. Never heard of dripping - I thought, when you typed dripping, it was a typo?

 

statequarterguy: Here's the excerpt.

The second rule of cleaning coins is take your coins to a professional do the cleaning. Professional dealers often offer a coin cleaning service using a method called "dripping" that should not be attempted by an amateur. Always handle your coins by the edges to avoid fingerprints on the surfaces.

This was posted in an article about coin cleaning in My Coin Collecting and a few other places that I found when I surfed the net looking fo other articles on 'dripping' or coin cleaning after I read it there. It could very well be a typo because I cannot find any other articles regarding it. I think this was the first place I came across the article, though I am not sure it originated there. I do know the conservationists are expert at coin restoration (cleaning, whatever you want to call it) and I was curious to know if they indeed used this method. Thanks for responding. If you can find anything regarding it I would love to hear more.

 

Hmm, I just googled dripping and came up with 4 or 5 articles all saying pretty much what you just said. Anyone else heard of dripping or is it a typo?

 

cleaning is a great thing to do. Don't listen to the old farts.