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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;dayriser, post: 761508, member: 21610&quot;]Yeah, that was kinda my point... I got a collection out of a coinstar machine that some poor gal dumped... I saw a bunch of wheats in the return so I begged them to let me buy the two penny bags... In the bags were about 5 ih&#039;s and $63.00 in wheats... A full half of the wheats (and some really great dates and conditions) looked like they had been heavily buffed with some type of really harsh chemical... It clearly makes all the cleaned ones far less appealing... No doubt... I use them as informational coins for my little boy and girl... It is easier to show some details on a very &#039;clean&#039; coin... But precisely because it DOES still affect the value so much, you can bet that if a cleaned coin makes it&#039;s way to one of the big 3 TPG&#039;s, they are going to note if it has been &#039;cleaned&#039;... I mean they even tagged one of the $20 St. G&#039;s as &#039;improperly cleaned&#039; and it would have been a coin worth millions... Since it is such a known fact that cleaning detracts from a coins value, much like refinishing a true antique piece of furniture, I believe there are far more people out there protecting coins the best way they can without scrubbing them with comet and a metal scouring pad... I think 80% is an absurdly high number of coins to assume have been cleaned... Coin collecting is not a new hobby, nor is protecting metal...</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Nice response though... <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> Thanks Insomniac...</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Editing this to catch the second poster who apparently was typing as I was...</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>And here is the response to GDJMSP...</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>First the point about superlatives... I simply feel it leaves no room for debate when someone makes comments that something &#039;never&#039;, that something is &#039;irrefutable&#039;, &#039;indisputable&#039;... These are &#039;facts&#039; not opinions... That means of writing is clearly intended to bully someone from challenging your Never-wrong, irrefutable, indisputable facts rather than just depending on strong reasoning...</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Now for the rest, I don&#039;t believe there were thousands of airtight containers being handed out to coin collectors by Socrates... In fact, I didn&#039;t mean to insinuate that at all... My point had more to do with the fact that coins have been found in many, many strange places... People have done wierd things to try and protect coins, and have ended up destroying them... Other times, coins have simply been left in places where they incidentally were protected from the harsher of the elements until a true &#039;collector&#039; such as yourself came along and found a better way to protect it... Coins are found in better shape than we would expect to find them through simple circumstance... Over thousands of years of coins being used, coin-collecting did not begin with Coin World&#039;s first publication... Smarter men than me have for centuries been doing their best to protect some types of coins, and many of those coins are in the hands of wealthy collectors today... To throw a number like 80% out there is simply overstating... Much in the same way that you overstate when you call copper the most reactive metal, or say that a collector from a few short years ago had ZERO means to protect a coin... </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>And so you know, I learned that toning lesson some time ago... and when I compare the coins in my box, I was simply contrasting the different variables that must have effected the coins... The same coins, from the same time frame, kept in the same way, by the same lady, in the same velvet bag... They sat in a closet for a long time, before the daugther decided to roll them and take them to the bank... That is when I got them, and of course, I never clean a coin... Some of them are so red that it is actually difficult to tell how toned without sitting it next to an untoned coin of the same year... Others are so dark, it is hard to read them... Some coins over the centuries have simply fared better than others up to the point they were found and preserved... and many, many of them were preserved before any significant toning took place... Sometimes a coin is simply just that good... I don&#039;t call them out as being cleaned just because I don&#039;t own them... <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie1" alt=":)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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