Cleaned or not cleaned ? Your thoughts!

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by Dan Galbato, Jun 17, 2024.

  1. Dan Galbato

    Dan Galbato Well-Known Member

    I’ve been looking at nickels to purchase and I could use help deciding if any appear cleaned. I do not own these but held back because I didn’t know one way or another!Thoughts please! IMG_2842.jpeg IMG_2841.jpeg IMG_2797.jpeg IMG_2801.png IMG_2798.jpeg IMG_2770.png IMG_2766.jpeg IMG_2760.jpeg
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  3. Spark1951

    Spark1951 Accomplishment, not Activity

    The only one that has not been cleaned is the 1912…adjust any offers accordingly for the others should you proceed…imo…Spark
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  4. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    Hey man! Love older nickels. I have a bunch of 1868's Shield's (variety coins) and newer.
    What are they asking for each? One or two coins at a time would be easier to evaluate these coins. I'm having Picture overload right now, lol.
    The only one I'd consider maybe is the 1912 V Nickel and 1867 Shield. IMHO.
    Dan Galbato likes this.
  5. Dynoking

    Dynoking Well-Known Member

    Great advice!
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  6. Dan Galbato

    Dan Galbato Well-Known Member

    thanks Spark! That is what I thought as well. Most of these have sold and belong with other collectors. Some sold for a lot more than I was willing to spend.
  7. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    If you are looking for responses, it is better to post only one or two coins. Posting many pieces confuses the issue.

    The 1912 nickel is not Mint State. The photo makes it look dull with no mint luster. If that is a true reflection of the look of the coin, it has been messed with. The coin appears to be an Almost Uncirculated which should have luster.

    As for the other coins, some are circulated and others have cleaned. The Shield Nickel with the black corrosion residue and otherwise bright surfaces has been scrubbed. It is not an unimpaired coin. It is a problem coin.
  8. Bill in Burl

    Bill in Burl Collector

    All, including the 1912, have been cleaned, but still nice coins.
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  9. Dan Galbato

    Dan Galbato Well-Known Member

    Good Mornin Sal!
    I agree with you about showing too many coins at once. I’ve been filling a book of nickels and have been looking at so many it’s become a nightmare and a pleasure at the same time! I was just trying to give a wide array of examples. I’ll cut back in the future and save on the overload! lol. Geez, I’m glad I didn’t ask for a grade! Just kidding guys! Just kidding!
    The 1912 v and 1967 are mine. The others I passed on . I purchased them because they didn’t look like they were messed with and the black carbon or whatever its called was absent and the coins weren’t worn down. That said, John M has me second guessing myself but thats how we learn. thanks John! Collecting perfection is a goal to aim for! We should buy the best when possible and be content. At any moment it will not be my problem!
    Sal, The 1912 was $76 and the 1867 was $54. Compared to the prices asked for some other examples on eBay I bought them right. The asking prices for raw coins is comical and folks are chomping on them. They’re not even key date coins?
    My Nickel Book!
    The first two pages of nickels in my book has been set aside for V nickels, Shield nickels, buffalo nickels, and now, three cent nickels. The rest of my nickel collection is made up with 1938/2024 S proof Jefferson nickels minus the yrs they didn’t mint S and filled with D mint coins. X two!
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  10. Dan Galbato

    Dan Galbato Well-Known Member

    Thanks John.. every now and then I’ll peak at some of the high end coins that are offered on eBay and it gives me an example of what to look for in a coin! Nothing I purchase will enter that world. Appreciate your help and experience sir!
  11. Dan Galbato

    Dan Galbato Well-Known Member

    Thanks Bill. Not a bad page filler from where I’m sitting! lol..plenty of metal remains. I could never understand why it is important not to clean mung, gum, carbon, snot, or whatever you find on a coin, off? Sure, Ms condition and key date coins I’d keep clear of cleaning them but nothing more grubbier than a nasty nickel!
  12. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    The 1912 looks I cleaned to me. As for all the others, definitely cleaned at some point.
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  13. Dan Galbato

    Dan Galbato Well-Known Member

    Agree Nut! Do you have any idea how and what they use to remove the black on these coins? Some coins come out cleaner than others and some have dark crud embedded deep in the cracks.
  14. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Let me try to help you with some photos. I have been collecting Proof type coins of late, but I do have some Mint State nickels.

    First, here is a high-end Proof 1909 nickel. This is NGC graded PR-66 Cam.

    1909 Nickel b All.jpg

    Here is an MS-65, 1912-D. Thing to look for is the shiny post. On a Mint State coin if you swirl it under a strong light, that are will rotate around the unbroken. If there is a break in that luster, it's an indication that the coin is not full Mint State.

    1912-D Nickel O.jpg 1912-D Nickel R.jpg

    On some coins, the luster is a bit more subdued, and it's harder to see. NGC graded this 1866 With Rays Nickel MS-64. The other key to look for is hairlines, especially if there is a pattern to them. That is an indicator that the coin was cleaned.

    1866 With Rays Nickel All.jpg

    Here's an even more subtle point. If the line are into the coin, that's bad because it's an indicator that they were put there before the coin was struck. If the lines are above the surface of the coin, that is an indicator that they are from die polish which was part of the coin at the moment it was struck. Advanced numismatists look for these features using a 10X glass which also comes in handy for detecting counterfeits and altered coins.

    I don't have a nickel with die polishing marks, but here is a modern coin that has them. They appear in the right field of this 2009, one ounce Ultra High Relief $20 gold coin.

    2009 UHR $20 O.jpg

    This feature made this coin undesirable for me. I sold it, and bought another one which didn't have the problem. Mint cause defects can raise or lower the value of the coin. Generally they raise the value of common modern coins, but lower the value of older better coins.

    Here is an example of the same issue without the die polishing.

    2009 U High RE O.jpg
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  15. Dan Galbato

    Dan Galbato Well-Known Member

    Thank you John,
    After spending time here on CT I’ve decided it’s time to let you know I’m available for adoption! If you ever find yourself in need of a son ,brother, uncle, or relative to take care of your coins, please think of me! LOL
    there is so much to learn and not enough time!
    question, on the image of the 1866 w/ rays nickel, to the left of the c in cent, I see a stain? What caused it? Is it a stain? Am I seeing things? lol…
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  16. Dan Galbato

    Dan Galbato Well-Known Member

    after reading and having a second look, the 1866 was cleaned. It looks like a die crack on the left side from the edge to the leaves. Also, the rim was hit in several locations.
  17. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    No, you are not seeing things. The metallic composition of a nickel is 88% copper and 12% nickel. What you see is an improper mix of the two metals which left the copper showing.

    The mint has had a hard time with striking nickels for well over a century. The people who worked at the mint called it, "The devil's copper." It was hard to strike and chewed up dies. It was hard to mix, and created more than it's share defective planchets and laminations.

    The hardness of the alloy resulted in the early dropping of the rays on the Shield Nickel. Liberty Nickels frequently had lightly struck areas. The Buffalo Nickel design was dropped after about 25 years, because the mint system could not strike the motif consistently well. Dealers and collectors have had fun with "full step Jefferson Nickels." I hope this gives you some background about why some nickel date and mint mark combinations are hard to find nice.
    Dan Galbato likes this.
  18. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    No idea what was used as I don’t even run a coin under water. In my opinion, even the softest of soaps will damage a coins surface.
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  19. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    I don’t see a crack on the 1866 but the 1867 has 2 of them. One is about 10 and the other is at 4 o’clock. Both cracks are totally separate but they go from the rim to the leaves on the shield side.
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  20. Dan Galbato

    Dan Galbato Well-Known Member

    John, again thank you! You sir are just a treasure of knowledge! Because of the difficulty in finding high grade coins at a range that fits my hobby allowance, I have a limit on the amount I’ll spend on a coin. All I can do is buy what looks correct and be satisfied. What blows my mind is the prices some of these people want for garbage. What really hurts is getting it in the mail and learning it’s been cleaned or damaged. Key dates seem to run the course as well. There are some pitiful examples to choose from!
  21. Dan Galbato

    Dan Galbato Well-Known Member

    Warm water and a light pat down on some of the reject coins is a must! How else can I get the gum soft enough to chew again?
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