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Message:: [QUOTE="imrich, post: 1347300, member: 22331"]A Simple Explanation Why do "conservers" clean mint state coins that are recovered from wrecks, dealers "dip" gold coins, Top Tier TPG grade cleaned coins from their affiliates and others? I believe one will find the simple answer is because consumers generally are reluctant to purchase a natural filthy coin at a fair market price, although it may have era proper mint detail/handling appropriately aged appearance. Todays' consumer generally never having seen a US coin from the last era of US Gold coin mintage, but having viewed ~80 year more recent modern era US Gold coins, with relatively flawless appearance have come to expect the same of antiquated coinage. Even the A.N.A. with its' misguided grading standard for 160 year old Gold coins states that a MS60 grade coin "has full mint luster with surfaces lightly marred", which I believe is generally only a dealers' dream. Generally, regardless of where you would have stored that coin 160 years ago, it wouldn't have full mint luster today. I have numerous MS60 coins graded by top tier TPG, and I can hardly remember a coin below MS62 meeting this criteria, and have MS65 certified coins that don't meet this criteria. When I started collecting US Double Eagle coins I sought out a dealer who was a "card carrying member", coin club president, and certified estate appraiser.  My primary criteria was "mint state" condition, certified by top tier TPG. I was provided with a list to select from, with the assurance that because these were the top tier TPG, I could be assured that they were correctly graded, and resale  wouldn't be a problem. I received "mint state" (MS60-61) top tier certified coins that looked as if they were buried for a century, eventually purchasing MS62 grade coins which significantly more expensive, but less than the prohibitedly priced MS63 . They had more luster, but generally didn't meet the "full mint luster" A.N.A. standard. After a strong 5 figure investment, I figured if I found a PCGS site advertised dealer, I would receive far more expensive, but "properly graded" coins. That was only a dream. It took a major investment and several years effort before I found a dealer who had some beautiful certified Gold Double Eagle coins of Type III St. Gaudens design, that were priced considerably less than Type II coins which had higher mintage and looked like they were covered with manure. I told him that I was interested in purchasing a large sum if he would explain the why and how of these less expensive lower mintage lustrous identical composition Gold coins. He took me aside to show me the  where with all of "conserving" Gold coins, which was basically "dipping", which he explained "everyone did" often to the newer type coins, because "buyers expected it". Over the years I was informed about the inconsistent grading standards of the "top tier" TPG, and that a cleaned lower grade coin from one top TPG could possibly be removed from holder, and submitted to another, receiving an equal or greater grade. Sure enough, I could consistently acquire "cleaned" coins from one TPG and have them acceptably graded by another.  This perception of flawless expectations has results in recent posts/comments on this site questioning how a higher graded mint state "top tier" TPG certified coin could receive even a grade other than GENUINE. The majority of posts agreed that the coin couldn't be mint state. We now have TPG "Market Grading" seemingly supported by the majority of sellers, because it appears that the simple answer is: Market Expectations trump Reality. You might possibly acquire that cleaned coin, send it to a "conserver", and have it become an acceptable product? <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie11" alt=":rolleyes:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />[/QUOTE]

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