Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Christmas Coins
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="John Conduitt, post: 8107760, member: 109923"]I thought I'd celebrate the upcoming festivities in the traditional way - with some seasonal coins. Or failing that, coins I'm able to tenuously link to the season...</p><p><br /></p><p>We’re very familiar with Saturn’s influence on Christmas through ‘Secret Saturnalia’ <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/secret-saturnalia-2021.388773/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/secret-saturnalia-2021.388773/">https://www.cointalk.com/threads/secret-saturnalia-2021.388773/</a>. Saturnalia, the Roman festival to Saturn held from 17 to 23 December, is thought to be the reason we exchange gifts and consume so much at Christmas. The over-indulgence of the event continued long after the religious aspect was lost. Bishop Asterius of Amasea complained in AD400 that the custom of exchanging a kiss for a coin made the festival ‘full of annoyance’ (with people demanding money), while children going door to door for gifts caused them ‘to be impressed with that which is commercial and sordid’.</p><p><br /></p><p><b>Roman Republic Semis, 128BC. Saturn would make a good Santa. He has the beard, and Saturnalia is an anagram of Santa Claus. Almost.</b></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1410467[/ATTACH]</p><p><b>Rome. Bronze, 23mm, 8.3g. Consul Gnaeus Domitius Ahenobarbus. Laureate head of Saturn. Prow of galley (Crawford 261/2).</b></p><p><br /></p><p>Christmas Day, however, may have been chosen as it was the birthday of a different Roman god. Constantine I, who famously converted to Christianity, had previously been an exponent of Sol the sun god, whose cult had been re-established by Aurelian. Sol’s celebration fell on 25 December, which (in the Julian calendar) was the winter solstice – when days started to get longer – hence it being Sol’s birthday. In Christianity too, it was the day we went from darkness to light.</p><p><br /></p><p><b>Constantine I Follis, 316, featuring Sol, whose birthday has been somewhat taken over.</b></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1410469[/ATTACH]</p><p><b>London. Bronze, 20mm, 3.1g. Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust; CONSTANTINVS P AVG. Sol Invictus, radiate, standing left, raising right hand, globe in left, chlamys across shoulder; SOLI INVIC-TO COMITI; S P in fields; MSL in exergue (RIC VII, 75).</b></p><p><br /></p><p>The nativity may have another link to Saturn. The Star of Bethlehem might’ve been a conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter. There are other theories, however, such as that the star was instead Halley’s Comet, which was visible in 12BC. Of course, 12BC is some time before the birth of Christ, but when you consider Herod, the king meant to have hunted for the baby Jesus, died in 4BC, perhaps it isn’t the comet theory that’s wrong. The comet was also seen above Rome for several days that year, warning of Agrippa’s death.</p><p><br /></p><p>Halley’s Comet was seen as an omen in Medieval Europe. It appeared in 1066 not long before the Battle of Hastings and subsequently featured on the Bayeux Tapestry and William I and II’s coins. This is stretching the Christmas link a little, but I can bring it back with the fact that William I’s coronation was held on 25 December.</p><p><br /></p><p><b>William II Penny, 1092-1095. The Star of Bethlehem guided William the Conqueror to the English crown.</b></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1410470[/ATTACH]</p><p><b>London. Silver, 1.4g. + þillelm rei (King William), crowned bust facing, star either side. + þvlfþord on lv (Wulfweard of London), voided short cross potent over cross pommée with 5 annulets (S 1260).</b> The annulets may be intended to symbolise the five sacred wounds of Jesus.</p><p><br /></p><p>But back to Saturnalia. During the festivities, a mock king was appointed in the guise of Saturn to oversee the revelry. His fun ended when his throat was cut on the altar of Saturn. This tradition continued in Christianity with the election of a ‘Lord of Misrule’ (as he was known in England) to oversee the drunkenness and partying of Christmas. Sometimes, he was also put to death when it was over.</p><p><br /></p><p>Across Europe, a ‘Boy Bishop’ was chosen to parody the real bishop from 6 December (the Feast of St Nicholas, the patron saint of children) to 28 December (Holy Innocents' Day). In France, the clergy sometimes dressed as women – role reversal had been central to Saturnalia. The boy performed most of the ceremonies, which were consequently quite rowdy. In Bury St Edmunds in Suffolk, England, the Boy Bishop distributed lead tokens, presumably to exchange for alms at the Abbey. They resembled official coins and many ended up in local circulation.</p><p><br /></p><p><b>Boy Bishop Inscribed Lead Groat Token, 1480-1530. There’s a boy bishop in there somewhere.</b></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1410473[/ATTACH]</p><p><b>Bury St Edmunds. Lead, 5.2g. St Nicholas (or boy bishop) in mitre; croziers flanked by S and И; SANCTE NICOLAE ORA PRO NOBIS (St Nicholas, pray for us). Long cross pattée, with three pellets in quarters; ЄCCЄ NOVA FACIO OmNIA AVE REX GEnTIS (Series 1 Bury). </b>Found on the Norfolk-Suffolk border. Ave Rex Gentis Anglorum (behold the King of the English) was a hymn sung to St Edmund in Bury Abbey.</p><p><br /></p><p>For a better write up, and a better token, see this post by [USER=74712]@FitzNigel[/USER] <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/medieval-st-nicholas-and-the-boy-bishop.371143/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/medieval-st-nicholas-and-the-boy-bishop.371143/">https://www.cointalk.com/threads/medieval-st-nicholas-and-the-boy-bishop.371143/</a></p><p><br /></p><p>Henry VIII wasn’t a fan of the festival and it was banned in the Reformation. It persisted a while, and the tokens became very crude, possibly to conceal the link to the ceremony. Crude unofficial tokens were also struck to use as change.</p><p><br /></p><p><b>Boy Bishop Uninscribed Lead Penny Token, 1480-1560. Only the hat remains.</b></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1410477[/ATTACH]</p><p><b>Bury St Edmunds. Lead, 4.1g. Crozier and mitre. Long cross pattée, with pellets in quarters (Series X Bury).</b> Found on the Norfolk-Suffolk border.</p><p><br /></p><p>The ‘Lord of Misrule’ was sometimes chosen by dropping a bean or coin into a pudding. Whoever found it would become the Lord of Misrule (or, in Europe, the ‘Queen of the Bean’). The Reformation ended the festival but putting a bean or coin in a cake or pudding survived as a Christmas tradition. Latterly in England, the coin used was a sixpence. The finder would get good luck and wealth for the year, starting by keeping the sixpence. This tradition continues today, although less so since sixpences went out of circulation 50 years ago and you’d get sued if anyone swallowed one.</p><p><br /></p><p><b>Elizabeth I Milled Sixpence, 1562. When sixpence was worth finding in your pudding.</b></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1410478[/ATTACH]</p><p><b>Tower. Silver, 26mm, 2.98g. Eloy Mestrelle’s 4th type. Large Rose, mintmark star. (S 2595).</b> One of the first milled coins, made with a screw press. You’d want one of these in your pudding instead of the smaller (19mm) 19th and 20th century sixpences, since it contains more silver and you’d be less likely to swallow it.</p><p><br /></p><p>Have a Roman Christmas and a Merry Saturnalia…</p><p><br /></p><p><b>Sources</b></p><p><br /></p><p><i>Saturnalia</i>, Wikipedia <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia</a></p><p><i>Lord of Misrule</i>, Wikipedia <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_Misrule" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_Misrule" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_Misrule</a></p><p><i>Boy Bishop</i>, Wikipedia <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_bishop" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_bishop" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_bishop</a></p><p><i>Boy Bishop Tokens or St Nicholas Tokens</i>, St Edmundsbury Chronicle <a href="http://www.stedmundsburychronicle.co.uk/coinsintrotokens.htm" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.stedmundsburychronicle.co.uk/coinsintrotokens.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.stedmundsburychronicle.co.uk/coinsintrotokens.htm</a>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="John Conduitt, post: 8107760, member: 109923"]I thought I'd celebrate the upcoming festivities in the traditional way - with some seasonal coins. Or failing that, coins I'm able to tenuously link to the season... We’re very familiar with Saturn’s influence on Christmas through ‘Secret Saturnalia’ [URL]https://www.cointalk.com/threads/secret-saturnalia-2021.388773/[/URL]. Saturnalia, the Roman festival to Saturn held from 17 to 23 December, is thought to be the reason we exchange gifts and consume so much at Christmas. The over-indulgence of the event continued long after the religious aspect was lost. Bishop Asterius of Amasea complained in AD400 that the custom of exchanging a kiss for a coin made the festival ‘full of annoyance’ (with people demanding money), while children going door to door for gifts caused them ‘to be impressed with that which is commercial and sordid’. [B]Roman Republic Semis, 128BC. Saturn would make a good Santa. He has the beard, and Saturnalia is an anagram of Santa Claus. Almost.[/B] [ATTACH=full]1410467[/ATTACH] [B]Rome. Bronze, 23mm, 8.3g. Consul Gnaeus Domitius Ahenobarbus. Laureate head of Saturn. Prow of galley (Crawford 261/2).[/B] Christmas Day, however, may have been chosen as it was the birthday of a different Roman god. Constantine I, who famously converted to Christianity, had previously been an exponent of Sol the sun god, whose cult had been re-established by Aurelian. Sol’s celebration fell on 25 December, which (in the Julian calendar) was the winter solstice – when days started to get longer – hence it being Sol’s birthday. In Christianity too, it was the day we went from darkness to light. [B]Constantine I Follis, 316, featuring Sol, whose birthday has been somewhat taken over.[/B] [ATTACH=full]1410469[/ATTACH] [B]London. Bronze, 20mm, 3.1g. Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust; CONSTANTINVS P AVG. Sol Invictus, radiate, standing left, raising right hand, globe in left, chlamys across shoulder; SOLI INVIC-TO COMITI; S P in fields; MSL in exergue (RIC VII, 75).[/B] The nativity may have another link to Saturn. The Star of Bethlehem might’ve been a conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter. There are other theories, however, such as that the star was instead Halley’s Comet, which was visible in 12BC. Of course, 12BC is some time before the birth of Christ, but when you consider Herod, the king meant to have hunted for the baby Jesus, died in 4BC, perhaps it isn’t the comet theory that’s wrong. The comet was also seen above Rome for several days that year, warning of Agrippa’s death. Halley’s Comet was seen as an omen in Medieval Europe. It appeared in 1066 not long before the Battle of Hastings and subsequently featured on the Bayeux Tapestry and William I and II’s coins. This is stretching the Christmas link a little, but I can bring it back with the fact that William I’s coronation was held on 25 December. [B]William II Penny, 1092-1095. The Star of Bethlehem guided William the Conqueror to the English crown.[/B] [ATTACH=full]1410470[/ATTACH] [B]London. Silver, 1.4g. + þillelm rei (King William), crowned bust facing, star either side. + þvlfþord on lv (Wulfweard of London), voided short cross potent over cross pommée with 5 annulets (S 1260).[/B] The annulets may be intended to symbolise the five sacred wounds of Jesus. But back to Saturnalia. During the festivities, a mock king was appointed in the guise of Saturn to oversee the revelry. His fun ended when his throat was cut on the altar of Saturn. This tradition continued in Christianity with the election of a ‘Lord of Misrule’ (as he was known in England) to oversee the drunkenness and partying of Christmas. Sometimes, he was also put to death when it was over. Across Europe, a ‘Boy Bishop’ was chosen to parody the real bishop from 6 December (the Feast of St Nicholas, the patron saint of children) to 28 December (Holy Innocents' Day). In France, the clergy sometimes dressed as women – role reversal had been central to Saturnalia. The boy performed most of the ceremonies, which were consequently quite rowdy. In Bury St Edmunds in Suffolk, England, the Boy Bishop distributed lead tokens, presumably to exchange for alms at the Abbey. They resembled official coins and many ended up in local circulation. [B]Boy Bishop Inscribed Lead Groat Token, 1480-1530. There’s a boy bishop in there somewhere.[/B] [ATTACH=full]1410473[/ATTACH] [B]Bury St Edmunds. Lead, 5.2g. St Nicholas (or boy bishop) in mitre; croziers flanked by S and И; SANCTE NICOLAE ORA PRO NOBIS (St Nicholas, pray for us). Long cross pattée, with three pellets in quarters; ЄCCЄ NOVA FACIO OmNIA AVE REX GEnTIS (Series 1 Bury). [/B]Found on the Norfolk-Suffolk border. Ave Rex Gentis Anglorum (behold the King of the English) was a hymn sung to St Edmund in Bury Abbey. For a better write up, and a better token, see this post by [USER=74712]@FitzNigel[/USER] [URL]https://www.cointalk.com/threads/medieval-st-nicholas-and-the-boy-bishop.371143/[/URL] Henry VIII wasn’t a fan of the festival and it was banned in the Reformation. It persisted a while, and the tokens became very crude, possibly to conceal the link to the ceremony. Crude unofficial tokens were also struck to use as change. [B]Boy Bishop Uninscribed Lead Penny Token, 1480-1560. Only the hat remains.[/B] [ATTACH=full]1410477[/ATTACH] [B]Bury St Edmunds. Lead, 4.1g. Crozier and mitre. Long cross pattée, with pellets in quarters (Series X Bury).[/B] Found on the Norfolk-Suffolk border. The ‘Lord of Misrule’ was sometimes chosen by dropping a bean or coin into a pudding. Whoever found it would become the Lord of Misrule (or, in Europe, the ‘Queen of the Bean’). The Reformation ended the festival but putting a bean or coin in a cake or pudding survived as a Christmas tradition. Latterly in England, the coin used was a sixpence. The finder would get good luck and wealth for the year, starting by keeping the sixpence. This tradition continues today, although less so since sixpences went out of circulation 50 years ago and you’d get sued if anyone swallowed one. [B]Elizabeth I Milled Sixpence, 1562. When sixpence was worth finding in your pudding.[/B] [ATTACH=full]1410478[/ATTACH] [B]Tower. Silver, 26mm, 2.98g. Eloy Mestrelle’s 4th type. Large Rose, mintmark star. (S 2595).[/B] One of the first milled coins, made with a screw press. You’d want one of these in your pudding instead of the smaller (19mm) 19th and 20th century sixpences, since it contains more silver and you’d be less likely to swallow it. Have a Roman Christmas and a Merry Saturnalia… [B]Sources[/B] [I]Saturnalia[/I], Wikipedia [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia[/URL] [I]Lord of Misrule[/I], Wikipedia [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_Misrule[/URL] [I]Boy Bishop[/I], Wikipedia [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_bishop[/URL] [I]Boy Bishop Tokens or St Nicholas Tokens[/I], St Edmundsbury Chronicle [URL]http://www.stedmundsburychronicle.co.uk/coinsintrotokens.htm[/URL][/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Christmas Coins
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...