Chinese fake STILL on eBay

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Marshall, Feb 22, 2018.

  1. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    The reverse dies of the two coins do not match
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest

    to hide this ad.
  3. l.cutler

    l.cutler Member

    Yes this is definitely a fake. Unfortunately ebay doesn't seem to have any knowledgeable numismatists on staff and only acts on the more obvious fakes.
  4. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    A friend and dealer bought the "half cent" on the hopes it is an unknown variety, but as Conder101 pointed out it is a definite fake, which the new owner verified in hand. Buy an Ali or GMM and put it in a man made environment (passed on saying just "add water") and you have one of these...
  5. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    There is a small group of volunteers who report bad coins to eBay as they see them; I had the 1796 "large cent" listing just removed.
    Stevearino and Marshall like this.
  6. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    I was almost fooled by a fake by the same manufacturer and another poster provided a link to his "coins." I knew a fake was probable, but the link provided certainty.

    On my first post, I showed the coin and noted the reverse was different from the one currently offered by the manufacturer which uses another impossible combination.

    But the obverse die is identifiable as a fake and I'm sure a little more investigation at the manufacturers websight would locate the reverse die used on the "weathered" fake.

    The story is probably just that. A cover story, though it's possible he stumbled across a site where the modern counterfeits were being weathered to add an authentic look. But his choice to leave the posting on eBay after being informed makes his credibility suspect.

    I don't know a lot about many coins, but I do know a lot about early date Large Cents and their varieties.

    Conder is my go to person when I have questions and Typecoins and Eduard are becoming a great resources as well.

    I certainly understand the desire to find treasure, but we must always be vigilant to report fakes in order to protect the hobby from the unscrupulous.

    If you'd like to know more about attributing Large Cents, you can look in the "Attribute This" thread in the US COINS Forum. You can see the detail in which specialists have gone to identify legitimate varieties and markers which would help distinguish between legitimate newly found varieties and modern fakes.

    If you run across an Early Large Cent and need help verifying a variety and thus authenticity, I'm always willing to assist.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
    Mainebill likes this.
  7. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    Thank you for your often thankless efforts.
    Stevearino and Jack D. Young like this.
  8. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    Just for those who would like to see it, this is the Reverse die from the same manufacturer used on the coin in the OP.


    OK! Technically this is a Reverse side of a "coin" struck by the same die used to strike the Reverse of the coin in the OP.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  9. halfcent1793

    halfcent1793 Well-Known Member

    There have been several examples on eBay lately of alleged dug early coppers from Delaware. They have been obvious fakes (obverse and reverse of different types, for example) that have been artificially corroded like this one. I don't know how they do it, but they do it.
    Marshall likes this.
  10. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    I'm really curious which elements of this you see on the corroded example to be able to match it as this piece type. So little there. I see a tiny patch of leaves at 9 o'clock.
  11. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Well let's noodle on this. What type of moisture in a mixed soil base, with maybe a couple of electrodes from a car battery or other DC source COULD make something like this happen? Plus SOME mechanical wearing is needed, such as from a simple rock tumbler. (I happen to have an electronic DC voltage source I got in a bulk auction lot.) I have some copper rounds (chemical match for early copper) I'd be willing to put to the project.
  12. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  13. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    The diagnostics of real Large Cents can be found in Breen's Encyclopedia of Large Cents, Sheldon's Penny Whimsy and William C. Noyes works.

    The best online comparables I use are are for the most complete collection ever assembled and placed at auction in 2009. The Holmes collection was on several sites and the one I use is

    I also heavily supplement it using Heritage Archives. There was about ten years where the descriptions were written by a real EAC expert and there is a wealth of information there.
  14. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    One thing which you will probably find is that creating a surface level of corrosion after tumbling is quite easy on copper, which is a much more reactive metal than silver or gold. But a quick weathering is usually very shallow and lacks depth which occurs over time.

    Never underestimate bad guys and their ingenuity.
    tommyc03 likes this.
  15. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    Berrys, leaf positions, stems, etc.
  16. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Do you think the element of accelerating corrosion with artificially applied voltage is needed, to the best guess you have? Or could extremely quasi-normal micro-level movement of ions do the job? I doubt that scammers have sufficient patience. Also, I'm assuming some salinity is in order, or perhaps some low pH.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  17. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    My suspicion is that whatever creates the toning/corrosion the fastest is used.

    But the old method of doing so was to just place it in the bottom of a potted plant for a season where it was moist and exposed to the soil. It was used to restore cleaned coins.

    It's certainly better than the even older method of placing them in your underwear for a month or so when you would finally decide to change them.

    But modern counterfeiters are sure to be a bit more sophisticated now.
    tommyc03 likes this.
  18. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    s-136.jpg My recent struck fake 1797 S-136; 4 confirmed examples, mine is the most "weathered".
  19. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    For diagnostic photos, what is your opinion of the greatly expanded large cent section in "Mega Red" #1?
  20. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    Wow! They are getting much better. This one would have probably fooled me.
    Jack D. Young likes this.
  21. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    I'm not familiar with that.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page