Chinese Counterfeiter Producing High Quality Fakes

Yeah I do not see any proof in this thread that these fakes passed those basic tests.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Unfortunately, as Doug stated above, some coins DO pass the test. The proof is not in a CT thread, but in the actual coins themselves. Underestimating the capabilities of a serious counterfeiter has resulted in complacency and a false sense of security.

 

To add to the above: I'm sure that you will agree that a replica made of 90% silver will probably pass most tests. Depending on what the remaining 10% is, it may pass all weight/size/composition tests.

You can find 90% silver replicas (Morgan and Peace dollars) on EBay. I contacted one of the sellers to confirm that the replicas were 90% silver. They are going for around $40. I'm not interested enough to spend $40 just to see if it is real silver. If you want proof, you are free to order one.

 

The problem is not unique to US silver either. I see Eastern European sellers ofering full weight and assay silver replicas of rare Russian imperial coins quite often on ebay. I have also seen the same with Chinese silver dollars. These were especially tricky to identify (before putting them under a microscope, that is). And, these were NOT always marked and listed as replicas.

 

Just wondering if the words copy is on your replicas . And if not what will happen to them when you're done with them .

 

As stated numerous times, they were struck in China by very skilled craftsmen where foreign regulations are null and void. I do not plan on being done with them anytime soon and even if I ever was I would never sell or give them away to anyone without examining them for compliance with the HPA. I happen to have a set of letter punches so making any non-compliant replicas compliant wouldn't be a problem. Maintaining a high ethical standard comes first and foremost to me with collecting.

 

That's always good to know, but you wouldn't have much of a choice in the matter regardless. These earlier dates in such condition and with such great surfaces would be heavily scrutinized by whoever you sell them to. One or two may get past, but eventually that house of cards comes crashing down and you lose much more than you stand to gain.

 

Did I just not state that even if I were to liquidate them that I would make sure every replica is in compliance with the HPA before doing so? As in I would stamp them with the word COPY using my letter punches? Here is a seller whom I suspect is misguided in their moral compass but I will let the experts chime in: http://www.cointalk.com/t192125/#post1281601 (read post #6 from me).

 

Actually, there does not appear to be anything wrong with either of those coins.

I realize what you said, but I also realize that what people say and what they actually do are not always one and the same. Just saying, it's always good to know someone intends to do the right thing, but in case they end up loosing focus the reality is a sobering factor.

 

So you are saying that they even coin composition exactly accurate? Heck if they can do that why not just put in fake slabs and sell it for $$$$.

 

So it is similar to what we saw with pirated media. Either we get government to step in and ban the sale of replica or let the market sort it out. Latter will bring down prices but also bring more to coin collection since it would be cheaper for casual collector to finish sets.

 

Yes you did, good for you. Now what if something unexpected happened to you tomorrow? (Accidents do happen, people do die from heart attacks or other illnesses right out of the blue.) The replicas would most likely wind up being sold unmarked as genuine pieces.

 

American collectors, at least, have been wanting replicas ever since coin collecting started in a big way in the 1800s. According to ANACS:

"Attitudes toward copies of coins have changed over the years. Whereas most of us now regard numismatic reproductions as a nuisance and assume that they were all created in order to dupe the unwary collector, this was not always the case. In the nineteenth century, making copies of coins was seen not only as innocent, but as a way of providing other collectors with specimens of rare and unusual coins that were otherwise unobtainable. They were sold openly at auction, and even wealthy collectors would have some in their collections. They certainly weren’t equated with originals, nor were they valued as highly. They were, however, regarded as useful and educational."

http://www.anacs.com/contentPages/ShowArticle.aspx?ID=19&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

 

Since I maintain such a high level of ethical standards when it comes to collecting, I have decided to remove most of the replicas from being mixed in with my original coins in my 2x2 albums and to make one single replica album out of them. Furthermore, since things happen and to avoid confusion, I will print out and keep a detailed list of my replica coins with my collection. That way if I am not around, no one will have trouble knowing that all of the coins in my replica album are in fact replicas and which coins in my blue folders are replicas and which are not.

The quoted paragraph above was fascinating to read. Just like modern-day conservatives are 19th Century liberals (pm me if anyone wants this explained), I am a 19th Century collector. Sentences 3,5 and 6 match my line of thinking with replicas to a T.

 

One of the main form of replicas in those 18th and 19th century collections were the electrotypes. And the main reason they would be made as mentioned was to provide other collectors with examples of rare varieties. This was commonly done because in the era before photography this was the best way to pass on information about what a particular variety looked like and collectors would use them for comparison purposes in trying to find a genuine specimen of their own. Written descriptions were also used but they are less satisfactory. Pencil rubbings were also a common way to pass the information along but both of these methods were less satisfactory than that of the three dimensional electrotype.

 

The problem was that by the 1960s, the reproductions had become so good that a lot of collectors ended up spending big money for what they thought was the real deal but ended up being fakes. That is one reason why I would never buy a key coin back then. And it was also one of the reasons why the Hobby Protection Act was enacted.

 

Sincerely not trying to be snotty or condescending, This is now the 21st century and I would just as soon have a high quality photo.

 

Personally, since I will never be able to own the real thing, I would rather have this than a photo (note: This is a faithful reproduction of a Brasher doubloon that was minted in Eureka Springs, Arkansas, with the actual gold specifications on a period press with hand-engraved dies.)

 

Actually that is pretty and I won't even pretend to be just as happy since you gave me a picture.