Chinese counterfeiter on ebay

I am rather surprised that some ag of a cash strapped state has not gone after Ebay, paypal and other ennablers under the rico laws, Like willy said, when asked why he robbed banks, "cause thats where the money is"

 

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I am confused ! If a seller is selling and advertising slabbed coins and the picture of the slabbed coins shows some grading company that is not on eBays legitimate graders list , I believe that throws that coin into the raw / uncerified rules catagory which states:

A raw or uncertified coin is defined as any coin not graded by one of the authorized grading companies. Sellers can list these items on eBay as long as:

• A numeric grade is not included in the title of the listing, such as MS-65, VF-25, etc. A numeric grade may only be included in the description of the listing.
• The grading company or price guide is not referenced in the title or description.
• A dollar value (even if personal opinion) is not included in the title or description.
• The listing includes a photo of the coin with the appropriate markings. Images that are dark, out of focus, edited, or otherwise deemed misleading are not permitted. Stock photos aren’t permitted.

But if you look at the description of these items they have a larger photo of the slabbed coin on which you can clearly read the name of the unofficial grading company. You can even see a recognizable grading number on the slab in the photos , such as PR70.

I guess I do not understand how the extra images of the slabbed item , is not considered part of the description ?

Take a look at this seller and maybe you can see what I mean ( sense it seems really difficult for me t articulate at this time )

http://cgi.ebay.com/1961-FOUR-COIN-SLABBED-SILVER-PROOF-SET-PERFECT-GRADE_W0QQitemZ300403882425QQihZ020QQcategoryZ139813QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m444QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DCRX%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DSI%252BUA%252BLM%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8319418655816233590

and


http://cgi.ebay.com/1921-SLABBED-MORGAN-SILVER-DOLLAR-BU_W0QQitemZ370343878319QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_US_Individual?hash=item563a371eaf

 

Since the Chineese own so many of our dollars, wouldn't it be in their best interest to prevent wide spread counterfeiting? Also, the FBI, the treasury, and the IRS may want to stop good counterfeits. After all, our country is great because we have a pretty high level of tax collection as well as a low levels of tax avoiding bartering and under the table transactions.

 

Do you really expect me to explain WHY eBay does anything? I can only tell you that those are the rules and that there is no limitation to what the pictures can show. For that matter, they can say that the coins are perfect instead of saying "MS70" without a problem.

 

Off topic, but I don't know if I can whole heartedly agree with that statement. The write-offs the average person gets are unbelievable. People are rewarded for having large mortgage loans and paying interest by being able to write off that interest. I have a small mortgage so I don't get rewarded. I ended up paying 4x more in taxes this year than a guy I work with who makes double what I do. He didn't actually save the money because it went to his mortgage interest. But he got to personally benefit from that and other things he could afford while mine went to the government.
There are low income people going to school, with kids who not only get back MUCH more than they paid in, but get back more in one year than me, as a full time working person will get back in 5 years! There are unmarried couples with kids who avoid getting married so the government will pay for their college bill! Once paid for, then they can get married. lol

As far as having a 'low' level of barter and under the table transactions.... No comment. Corporations have come up with more loop holes for tax avoidance than there are rules to make them pay. i.e. CEOs getting their bonuses in (inflated) stock options instead of cash.

The country is 12 trillion in debt, heading to 20 trillion in another ten years with 60 trillion in unfunded liabilities right now. I don't think there is much praise to pass around for the tax system or anyone else.

 

Don't go "off topic".

 

I think e-bay needs to have there own coin and currency police force
To maintain a safe envirement in seems its getting worse all the time!
I really dont buy of there anymore for that reason unless i know the
Person!!

 

Why? The ANA does it for them now.

 

Ebays not really interested in curbing all the non-sense. They're worried about their share price. I read an article in Coinage a while back about how ebay used to have a team of around 20 expert numismatists that were 'volunteers'. They volunteered their time to weed out the non-sense and get fake auctions canceled to protect consumers. Well, they ended up butting heads with the management and they were shut down. They didn't want them anymore. Must have been costing them too much profit. So ebay's actually doing less now than they were a few years ago. They most certainly wouldn't PAY people to police their coin auctions!

If they wanted to, they could make life miserable for these Chinese fake sellers. They could use random people to buy their replicas and when they showed up without the stamp, shut their account down. Then, if they start up a new account, repeat the process. Keep shutting them all down until it's not worth the hassle to them anymore. Anybody caught selling a known fake that they bought from the Chinese should be banned for life. But they don't do that either. They don't take the simplest of measures.

 

I would agree with Rim, eBay has been a lot more responsive lately about shutting down reported auctions. I think they have been feeling the heat and are trying to make out that they are good boys and girls. Don't know if it will last, but it's good while it does.

 

oops!

Oops! A mistake!

 

The problem is more Complicated than we thought!

We have people chewing the fat about what is legal, when and where. The fact remains the USA has enough trouble enforcing our own laws let alone trying to enforce our laws in another country. With Toyota in the news today I'll try to make this analogy.

Toyotas built in Japan, the USA or any country can be built to any standard the manufacturer desires. If they wanted to make a car which would cause the brakes to fail at 24,800 miles there is nothing to stop them. But where the fly gets into the ointment is where they plan on selling the cars. Cars built in Canada for the American market were made without the headlights being turned on at startup even after those were no longer sold legally in Canada. GM would not have to spend the extra dollars to include that feature when it was not needed in the United States. Every corner they can legally cut adds to the bottom line.

Applying this to coins: China can and does manufacture any thing they want. A counterfeit 1804 Dollar only becomes illegal when it enters the United States.

During my time as a bureaucrat with ICE (Immigration & Customs Enforcement) we would be treated to an article in the in house rag about seizures of a Million dollars worth of Jeans, Jewelry, purses, whatever. This would be the result of an undercover sting about importation involving trademark infringement. Possession of this material in the US is a crime so the recipient of the stuff could be arrested. Not being a cop myself I do not know how they would devise a sting concerning numerous individual packages entering the country. Each of these small packages have a Customs Declaration saying it contains: Crafts, Souvenirs, etc. There is something there but how do you apply it? That would be the difficult part.

I would guess that Ebay and Paypal could be co-conspirators with the buyer in the importation of this contraband. Even though the seller tells Ebay that their coins are marked as required by the law, Showing a consistant pattern of goods delivered without the required mark should carry some weight in the courts. It would certainly carry a lot of weight at Ebay offices.

Do we have a prosecuting attorney in our midst or a tough old customs agent?
Time for bed!

Read more: http://www.cointalk.com/t95466/#ixzz0kBPgblw9

 

I would agree with that!!

 

Absolutely, they could do it if they were interested in keeping everything above board. Ebay and their cohort PayPal are making alot of money off of their operations and they are not gonna do anything to jepordize their income. Besides, it's not just coins!!

The Chinese gov't is allowing and may even encourage their ppl to continue making counterfeits of all kinds. How are you gonna fight that? Although I appreciate what that Canadian did and says, the reality of someone here actually doing what was done in Canada is not gonna happen.

This whole Chinese counterfeiting criminal enterprise is bigger than anything the world has ever known! It's even bigger than the Mafia because they have the Chinese government and the government won't change any of their laws.

I know, let's get Gibson guitars to help us!!


http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/counterfeit-guitar-bust-708/

 

The jewelery business is going through the same thing with treated gemstones. They are doing something about it. Robert James, leader of the International school of gemology has really led the fight. They have a forums board open to the public,
see what they did with anisine and the issues. See who he contacted and why. Just type in ISG. I'm considering building on my old collection pennies, and now my dad's
silver not much but a start. But after reading about all the fakes I'm having second thoughts. How do you tell? Do they weigh the same? sound the same? Are there other tests? Any that would work on e-bay.I think this must be dealt with swiftly and severely. A call to action! or this will destroy another sector of our economy, one that supports many of you.
I always heard that counterfeiting us currency was one of the most serious of crimes. If enough people make enough noise to the right places somebody will do something the place to start is E-bay and pay-pal. If we ripped China off on all that gold as the link on the last page stated, I imagine that they are more than a mite bit perturbed.
So going to the source will be tough and must be done diplomatically, not by pressure. But the real challenge is keeping them out of our country,
Maybe e-bay is not the biggest offender, those TV shows seemed to be the biggest offenders, while on the other side of the coin they started a lot of people collecting raw gemstones, a new niche many of whom kept going.
They say it's still 90% silver 10% copper. Is the silver as good?
The good news I can finally get that 1909 s vdb penny I've been looking for a my whole life . But the bad news is, I no longer want it.
Good luck I'll help what I can, but you guys with good inventory have to grab the bull by the horns. Check out what the ISG did and who paid attention. And do more, find a list of American dealers selling them here that bought from China and make examples of them. It will make others think twice. sounds easy compared to gem stones.

 

Sorry I just checked the ISG website and they shut down the public forums. It's still worth checking into. I'm not a member any more, there is a blog now.

 

Great Objective Informed Posts!!

I've read your previous posts, found them to be thoughtful, objective, profound. EBay and Paypal are virtually invincible, unless our government decides to become involved in their operations. Americans have recently seen the outcome, when our society screamed about government intervention in the banking/financial industry. We may not approve, but many have tried to correct the operation of eBay/Paypal , generating sites as ebaysucks.com, paypalsucks.com, and initiating class action law suits which enriched attorneys, while silencing/restraining the victims. Pressure upon these companies will result in their discontinuing operations in challenged areas of endeavor, being replaced by worse choices, as can be viewed currently by eBay competitive sites which offer similar products without controls or recourse mechanisms. I believe diligence and education is the answer for effective purchasing. We all would prefer a utopian world, and I've spent much of my life attacking "windmills", to realize that only personal perseverance will
enable a successful purchasing result. I look at the fiascoes in TPG services, and realize that like eBay/Paypal, consumers will accept virtually anything when there are only lesser alternatives.

 

I wonder how long they would last if we paid for our purchases in boxes of counterfeit local coinage

 

This stuff really concerns me. I think we need a multiprong attack:

1. Have the ANA contact them about a boycott

2. Have the ANA contact the U.S. Government about EBAY condoning counterfeiting. Copy Ebay on the letter.

3. We should all boycott Ebay and let them know we're doing it.

4. We should recognize that forums such as this one do have enough of an audience to start up a viable buying and selling website with less fees. I'm aware that cointalk has a classified ads section, but we should advocate that they ramp up a more vigorous feedback system and go ahead and compete with them. Maybe for half the fees.

Steve

 

stevereecy
sinin1
imrich
Anokanite
fretboard
Please read http://www.cointalk.com/t95466/#post852546

You are talking as though eBay/PayPal has done something wrong. Pray tell what? And I do not mean your opinion , show me a fact. If you think you can find something like that, then tell me why the lawyers/government has not shut them down. I will save you the trouble. You won't find anything because they have done nothing wrong.

If you want to tilt at the windmills, try the government. There is actually a slim chance of success here. Get them to enforce the laws we have. Good luck. As they are today, they are unenforceable with today's transportation systems/mail systems. Alternatively, you might try to get the government to make laws that can be enforced. As logical as that sounds, you thing eBay is the 1000 pound gorilla on the block, what do you think fighting the government is?

Now you want to boycott eBay. If you totally shut down all coin sales to the USA, what you will have left is a very large, very successful and profitable company. If everyone here totally avoided eBay, someone would have to notify eBay that we were boycotting them before they would even know something was happening. You want the ANA to join the boycott? Then the ANA would have to quit working with eBay to rein in some of the fraud. You would wind up with a worse situation than you have today. I believe you will find much more success joining them than fighting them.