Chinese counterfeiter on ebay

Myself and a few others made threads about this last year. I did a little experiment myself.

I purchased several of the same type of buffalo nickel from 3 separate usernames from China on ebay. Two packages came after about a month and the third was very slow to get here. They must have thought, "what in the world was I trying to do here?". Because all 3 packages were the same, coming from the same place in Hong Kong. All the coins exhibited the same problems and flaws, telling me they probably were all made at the same place or at least came from the same source.

I had no written communication with the sellers whatsoever. They were advertised as having replica stamps on them. I didn't ask for them to leave them off because we had no communication. NONE of them came replica stamped, as you can expect.

IMO, they weren't that good. They weren't terrible either. They wouldn't fool me. But they might fool a beginner or a casual observer. I've stored them in a tube and put a label on it that says: "Replicas"-"Fakes". I don't think any dealer would be fooled by them though.
The pictures I posted in a test on here did end up fooling some people for a while. Others thought something was fishy with the one I posted but were hesitant to call me on it. Which was polite but not necessarily doing me a favor if I had genuinely been ripped off.


Last year one time, just by looking at feedbacks.... reading the buyers feedback that was left for the Chinese sellers and then looking on the sell side of those buyer's accounts, it didn't take me long to find somebody who had purchased fake, key day IHC's and was selling them on the sell side as real. Then, the buyer who paid $700 for one of those left a glowing, positive feedback. I contacted him and let him know he got ripped, even though it was several weeks ago. The guy said he found out later and reported him. I think he got his money back so it was ok. But he said thanks for letting him know.

The jerk that sold him the fake was still going about his marry way on ebay. No punishment apparently.

 

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Because he is not doing anything illegal.

And everything he lists on eBay IS clearly labeled. (What you receive on the other hand may not be.)

True, they have nothing like our Hobby Protection Act. Even marked copies are considered to be counterfeits under Canadian law.

He has to learn how. And until he does he needs to avoid spending sums of money on coins that he can't afford to lose. Some people will say he should "only buy coins slabbed by one of the reputable grading services." and that will help up to a point. Remember though that there are fake slabs out there as well.

OK, just as long as you know that it is illegal under US law for you to make unmarked copies of non-US coins as well.

And unmarked copies of coins happens to be one of those things. He can legally make them and ship them because of where he is. If you buy them and bring them into this country they YOU are the one that has broken the law, not him.

Jing is not breaking the law, what he is doing is perfectly legal. And ebay and paypal are bound by US law, which is why they require copies listed to be marked as such, and Jing's listing ARE marked. So Jing is behaving legally there as well as are Paypal and eBay. Although eBay and Paypal should required they they be marked in compliance with the HPA which Jing's copies are not. Simple matter though to change from a REPLICA punch to a COPY punch.

Now that is a good thought, but how can you tell from the pictures if it is in the die or has been punched? (To check for compliance.) And you still have the problem that since he is in China and not subject to our regulations he could still make them up both ways, list the ones on eBay with copy as part of the die, and ship unmarked ones. Legally

 

I understand and agree with everything you said - except this paragraph.

"Jing is not breaking the law", but "marked in compliance with the HPA which Jing's copies are not". I think what you are saying is that Jing's coins are marked "REPLICA" in stead of "COPY" to meet the HPA requirements.

"Although eBay and Paypal should required they they be marked in compliance with the HPA". They do at least in their words.

I think I will investigate just how exacting eBay is going to be. It may not stop Jing from listing and selling, but it will at least slow him down for a while.

 

It's funny... the "J-Man" was NARU'd for three months, then was back up and running when eBay (in their infinite wisdom) decided to add the "replica" category; apparently, the term "replica" is OK in eBay's eyes...

 

rlm, THAT IS AWESOME. If any information I have can be of use to you. Please just ask! hya:

 

Thanks Rim, I didn't realize that eBay specifically said they had to be marked in compliance with the HPA. That should be good enough to get a bunch of the ones marked REPLICA pulled and kept off. Report them as not being in compliance with eBay rules, probably have to quote both their rules and the relevant section of the HPA to get them to act, (Stress that the law states that the word MUST be COPY) but they should pull them. But once they get their hands on a COPY punch they will be back.

 

Hey why not just send a letter over to Meg Whitman? She is an ex CEO of ebay and running for gov of California, that should be enough incentive to get her to hollar over to her friends and get the ball rolling to get these counterfeiters off of ebay once and for all. Of course one of y'all would have to take care of the letter writing as she don't know me from Shinola and I'm not even a Republican. Just an idea y'all.

 

I believe the Secret Service investigates counterfeiting.

As everybody knows China could not care less about intellectual property, copy rights or counterfeiting. With the dollar tanking I suspect they're enhance their illegal operations.

 

I have found out the hard way that neither all eBay rules are published nor all published eBay rules are specifically followed. Just as a for-instance;

Please explain to me how coins after 1980 are not required to have pictures "showing the coin in its graded holder, front and back" by those words. BTW, they started enforcing these rules several months before they published the rules. Oh, and I can document both cases.

 

made in u.s.a. too.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article14996.html

 

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article14996.html

That's an amazing story.

 

I don't think that stamping a coin with REPLICA or COPY cuts the mustard. Like law pursuant to U.S. paper currency, a similar law should be enacted that stipulates that reproductions of U.S. coinage cannot be of the same size as the original.

Pursuant to U.S. Secret Service guidance provided on the U.S. Secret Service website:

"U.S. Currency


The Counterfeit Detection Act of 1992, Public Law 102-550, in Section 411 of Title 31 of the Code of Federal Regulations, permits color illustrations of U.S. currency provided:

• The illustration is of a size less than three-fourths or more than one and one-half, in linear dimension, of each part of the item illustrated
• The illustration is one-sided
• All negatives, plates, positives, digitized storage medium, graphic files, magnetic medium, optical storage devices, and any other thing used in the making of the illustration that contain an image of the illustration or any part thereof are destroyed and/or deleted or erased after their final use."

 

rim's cents;
I would like to help with your effort. For one; give me a site address, a phone number or any other way you have of getting in front of the right person there. The more of us doing this, the better off we all are. This shouldn't have to be left just to you to resolve. We are either collectors and/or investors here. We see and know the praise "E Pluribus Unum", this should be the same for our voices as well.

 

The only ways you can do it are "Report Item" - upper right of each listing "prohibited (banned items)"; "currency, coins, stamps.."; "fraudulently or improperly described currency"; "continue"; or "Report listing violations or problems with another eBay member" on the bottom of http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-coins.html page.

 

If you look at some of the listings very very closely, the 'coins' themselves are not marked. There have been listings I have seen where the word 'copy' or 'replica' has been 'photoshopped' onto the image.

 

I clicked on that link to policies for eBay. They are more specific than I thought. I think I'll cruise their site once a week just to see who I can find in violation, say for an hour or so. If we could get maybe 15 to 20 of us, each taking a different category, we could make life very interesting for the counterfeiters and rip off sites. It would even be interesting to share our finds and notes.

 

saltysam, it will take a lot of time & trouble to police the website, which BTW ebay should be doing?
the sad but true effect, you will be directed to an automated system that doesn't care, they will probably flag YOU for constant reporting. THE ONLY ANSWER... enough bad DSRs/NEGATIVE FEEDBACK, the seller gets the boot, then set up new account and back in business, can't stop the evil

 

I use a link in another forum to report ebay sellers who are repeat offenders pursuant to ebay policy. Ebay responds timely to every submisssion. And thus far, every ebay seller that I have reported has had such items in violation removed from auction.

IMHO I do not think that ebay casts a negative light on folks who repeatedly report. In fact, I believe they would rather receive the reports. They are constantly receiving bad press in the media about nefarious auctions.

 

Sorry you feel that way.

The truth really is;
"directed to an automated system" - it is completely manual
"that doesn't care" - They enforce their rules, not what each individual thinks they should do. And not everything that just looks suspicious just because it looks suspicious like some here have tried.
"they will probably flag YOU for constant reporting" - 180 from the truth. If so, I would have been kicked off. In stead, I got elevated. BTW, I have reported over 1000 in a day more than once. Most were repeats to get their attention. It worked.
"can't stop the evil" - Probably, but maybe you can slow it down a lot.

 

Oh! An addenda to my previous post.

They do not always do it today. As often as not, it is a day or more later.