Howdy, As said in my other post: http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=35120 I have a Chinese Coin I think and I would like to know more information about it. I've looked at the worldcoingaller.com website and found nothing, I even looked in my Krause Book (2005 Edition 1901-Present, 32 Edition). Here are the images scanned at 300 DPI 1st (size of image: 520.31 KB) http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i32/texanlover/OTHER/878c1c23.png 2nd. (size of image: 443.54 KB): http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i32/texanlover/OTHER/cc0dfb98.png I only paid 2 dollars for this one coin and he had two other ones too but I liked the Dragon better because I am into Dragons. This coin is pretty big I would say at the same size of a Silver Trade Unit (which I also have)
If you don't mind Chinese counterfeit coins, by all means go ahead but I cannot guarantee what they used in their "coins". Sometimes it might be high levels of lead but you'll never know what other levels of heavy metals are used. I'll rather not want to find out and put them in a separate place. If you want dragon coins, I recommend you to get Japanese silver yen or copper sen like this: Or Korea under the Japanese protectorate era Or alternatively, many countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Canada, Hong Kong, Taiwan etc strike bullion coins to commemorate the Chinese zodiac, which one of them is the Dragon.
Actually I think it's a fantasy piece, not even a true "counterfeit". I don't read Chinese, but I am familiar with the characters for "Republic of China" and "year", and the piece does not carry any of them. If genuine, it would have to be an Imperial coin (pre-1912). Neither the 19th nor 20th Century Krause catalogs show anything remotely similar to the reverse of this item. The obverse characters at 9:00 and 3:00, as well as the right-hand character at the top, do not appear on any picture in those catalogs. It's hard to say whether the Chinese counterfeiters produce more replicas of real coins, or fantasy pieces. Among their better known fantasy products are trade dollars and Morgans with dates that don't match mint production records. If you follow gxseries' advice, you may want to look for Japanese dragons, as many of them can be found at a reasonable price in top condition. The Korean Protectorate coins can get very pricey in XF or better.
Thanks for the reply. So its either a counterfeit or fantasy piece. well I have search the Internet for an image but the only image that I found that somewhat resembles the back (reverse) of the coin is the Taiwan Tael Image: http://koinpro.tripod.com/BarsMedalsRounds/TaiwanTael350.jpg
Which, unlike the questioned item, has a country name and a denomination. A huge difference my friend.
Yes I know the that they are different aside from the name of Taiwan, the two Chinese Characters and the denomination. I was merely suggesting that the Image of the Dragon and Horse are somewhat the same on my coin.
hi! Texguy, I am a Chinese calligraphy artist and happen to see your posting and decide to help out because I also have a few coins in my collection of the same period. Your coin image indicates it's imperial coin of the second last emperor Guang Xu (old spelling Kwuang Ksu), probably struck between 1905--10, of the province of Gang Su (or Kang su), in Northwest China. The obverse side reads "Silver coin of Guang Xu (reign), Gang Su province." But I can not tell if it's real or counterfeit by the picture alone. The real coin weighs around 26-27 grams. If you are nearby a large public university, you may find quite a few coin catalog books that would have info on Chinese dragon coins, i.e. "A Catalog of Modern World Coins, by R.S. Yeoman (6th Ed.), 1964. Good luck. Daniel Zheng
Yes, Chinese coins are very tricky as they have so many types of coins that unless you can read the letters on them you could easily buy a replica coin as I did. I don't think yours is a replica though, it's just a charm coin. I gave myself a rule to follow after buying a replica and two Korean wons that were the exact same. The rule is that I be very careful when I look at the asian coins and I prefer not to buy the ones with animals on them, they're just too nice for me to look at and I could go broke fast if I bought every one I like.
I am pretty sure that it is fake. I have been across thousands of these fake Chinese "dollars". The thing to do is run a magnet over it. It will probably stick.
OK..Give us the weight of the coin, the diameter, Run a magnet over it. If it is inside of traditional parameters it could be an 1870's era Dragon. Even then you can't bee 100% sure. Of course if you like Dragons there are the British Crowns, St. George is pretty neat. :loud:
sorry for the very late reply. I did run a magnet over it and it did stick to the magnet. As for the weight of the coin, I can not give it since I don't have anything to weigh it. As for the diameter its either a 41/42 Millimeter (I used the chart in the SC of World Coins Book). Hope this kinda helps. ______________ Well I'm more into the Asian Dragons then the Western Kind but I wouldn't mind going for a St. George coin if I find one.
This is a fantasy piece that never had a chance to be "real" coin. It has an obvious "fatal flaw" which I will describe at the end of this post. On the obverse side, the inscription at the top is (right to left) gan su sheng zao which means "made in Gansu Province". The four-character inscription at the center reads (top, bottom, right, left) guang xu yin bi which translates as "guang xu silver coin". Guang Xu was the reign title of Emperor De Zong who reigned 1875-1908 during the Qing (Ch'ing) Dynasty. To the best of my knowledge, however, no silver coins were minted in Gansu Province during the reign of Guang Xu. The characters located at the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions represent the Ten Heavenly Stems and the Twelve Earthly Branches. Based on an old Chinese calendar system this indicates the date (yi si) as 1905. The inscription at the bottom reads (right to left) ku ping yi liang which means "Treasury Scale one tael". The tael was the standard unit of weight for silver at that time. The reverse side depicts a dragon and a horse. The dragon represents the Chinese emperor. I believe the horse galloping on a plain symbolizes the Mongol people who ruled China at the time and whose culture was strongly associated with the horse. The magnet test confirms that the coin is not silver, and therefore not "real", despite the inscription indicating that it is one tael of silver. As to the "fatal flaw", a Chinese emperor was always depicted on coins by a dragon with five claws. If you examine the dragon on this coin you will see that it only has four claws. Gary
Thanks for the wonderful information. i do have one question though. I have a Question about the Dragon. In China (might be Japanese) the Dragon with 5 claws was for the Emperor while a 4 claw would be for the Government and a 3 claw would be for the people ie Citizens. Is this correct? Since it only has 4 claws could it be a Government coin or something of the likes.
Since very ancient times, the five-clawed dragon could only be used by the Emperor. I believe by the time of the Qing (Ch'ing) Dynasty (1644-1911), both the four and three-clawed dragon could be used by anyone although, even at this time, the four-clawed dragon may still have been used only by nobility and high government officials. "Government" coins, i.e legal coinage, was issued under the authority of the Emperor. Since your coin clearly identifies itself with the period title of the Emperor (Guang Xu), the year 1905, and states that it was struck at the mint in Gansu, the coin would have to have a five-clawed dragon if real. No legal coins could possibly be issued by the government with the Emperor's name and a four-clawed dragon. When I used the term "lethal flaw", I was actually using a pun. To pair a four-clawed dragon with a Chinese emperor would have meant death to the person(s) involved, and quite probably, death to the perpetrator's entire clan! So, we can be certain that the coin could not have been issued by government authorities. We also know that it is not silver and could not have been produced in Gansu since, I believe, the Gansu mint did not strike any silver coins during Guang Xu's reign. Finally, there are no Chinese coins, or even charms that I am aware of, that have a dragon and horse on the reverse side. I relied on my familiarity with traditional Chinese symbols to propose a possible explanation for the pairing of the dragon with the horse. In my estimation, the "coin" can only be considered a fantasy piece. Gary
