Chinese Auto Coin (Repost)

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by WannieA, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. WannieA

    WannieA ~ Thrive

    So back in the 80's, my dad and I started a large coin collection. Despite years of going to different countries and visiting coin dealers, I'm still questioning everything from what they are and authenticity of others. While I sort through the books, here's one that was purchased in the early 80's, and "dealer authenticated" What do you think? It is non-magnetic, is 39 mm, and weighs in at 25.49. 20180622_121815.jpg 20180622_121748.jpg 20180620_184334.jpg
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
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  3. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    100% genuine. The genuine coins look fake until you've seen enough of them.
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  4. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky Supporter

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  5. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast Supporter

    Nice one! Not the best strike, but I agree it looks genuine. This type is widely faked so make sure to get it authenticated if you plan to sell :)
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  6. gxseries

    gxseries Coin Collector

    Well done!

    Despite the technical weight of what a typical 7.2 mace coin is supposed to be (around 27.2g) - Kweichow Province was known to strike coins way under spec as she was poor in silver resources. Such coins were not popular with the public reception that the Kweichow mint was ripping people off.
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  7. kforbes862

    kforbes862 Well-Known Member

    Awesome coin. Getting it authenticated and graded would be a good idea.
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  8. mlov43

    mlov43 주화 수집가 Supporter

    Authentication recommended!

    Incredible find.
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  9. WannieA

    WannieA ~ Thrive

    Thank you everyone for your replies. I do plan on sending it to NGC or PCGS, along with a few other (trying to keep it under the number of submissions or "credits" they give you when you sign up LOL). Any thoughts on one over the other (NGC vs PCGS)?
  10. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast Supporter

    NGC for Chinese (and most other non-US) coins.
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  11. Mkman123

    Mkman123 Well-Known Member

    I concur, send it in to NGC
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  12. mlov43

    mlov43 주화 수집가 Supporter

    If you're a member of the ANA, you get submission privileges without the "fee," but you do pay the grading fee and other add-on fees and shipping. ANA per year I think is $32? I can't remember exactly...
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  13. WannieA

    WannieA ~ Thrive

    Ugh, sent a few for grading. Authenticated for some - but not for this one. There's no explanation for it, just in the system reads not genuine. I guess that is the first lesson (hopefully not in a long line of others) for me! It looks genuine, but what do I know LOL. Guess super forgers have been around for decades, even 20 years ago. :( Maybe I should just stick with my day-time job LOL!
  14. mlov43

    mlov43 주화 수집가 Supporter

    I was afraid of that. Well, now you know. And it's better to know than to not know about forgeries in your possession. Very good forgeries of big-buck coins have been happening for a very long time. And the grading company will not tell you how they know. That's their secret (maybe), and if they revealed it, forgers would work around that problem to make even better forgeries.

    My attitude is this: If I were ever to "come upon" some amazing piece that is a well-known rarity, I immediately assume it's a forgery. And I'd probably be right about that 99 times out of 100. That's how prevalent forgeries are.
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  15. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky Supporter

    Sorry about your auto coin not being genuine. You could buy coins already graded/slabbed in plastic by third party graders from PCGS, NGC, ANACS, PCI, ICCS. or buy from very reputable coin dealers at coin shows. There are many coins from China that are forged/faked. I hope you will still be interested in coins anyways. There are many other coins you might find interesting to look at and collect.
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  16. mlov43

    mlov43 주화 수집가 Supporter

    Yeah, @spirityoda is right: There is still plenty of reason to be hopeful about collecting coins. My previous post sounded so negative before, and I should have pointed out the upsides. Sorry about that.

    It's easy for us to get negative in this hobby because counterfeit coins are such a pernicious thing, and are a real violation of our trust in the market, although fakes have been around forever. We just have to be as knowledgeable about the coins we collect as we can. Yes, stay positive. You CAN reap rewards with knowledge of the coins and the market and good timing when purchasing really nice pieces.

    I personally feel confident that the coins I collect are genuine since ~most~ of the coins that I collect are ones that nobody really would want to fake! That's one approach to the problem.
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  17. WannieA

    WannieA ~ Thrive

    Thank you! I was definitely kind of bummed, as of the ten in this batch, this was the only one to come back that way. I let the coin guys I'd consulted know, and he is still adamant that he believes it to be real. (Guess I won't be going there?! LOL). Guess I will make a paper holder out of it (real light ones LOL).
  18. jgenn

    jgenn World Crown Collector

    I bought a digital caliper for $17. With that I can quickly measure the diameter and thickness in order to calculate the volume of a coin. With an accurate weight you can calculate an approximate specific gravity. Many, many good looking counterfeits can be detected by having low specific gravity. Of course you can also do the weight in water test but I personally find that to be too much of a PITA.

    If you find the specific gravity to be in the correct range you might consider submitting it again, and perhaps to a different TPG. I've had luck re-submitting 8 reales that were rejected by one TPG and getting certification by another. Borderline cases are always going to be difficult to authenticate.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
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  19. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky Supporter

    which company did you send your coins to get authenticated WannieA ?
  20. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast Supporter

    I'm also surprised that it was not authenticated. The TPG had it in hand, so can't really argue other than that it looks good from the photographs. I hope that paranoia over an expensive coin coming from a new submitter was not a factor in that decision.
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  21. WannieA

    WannieA ~ Thrive

    Yup. It went to the NGC. So, I am taking their word for it, as I'm sure if they say n, then it's a no. It's funny, the coin guy is so adamant that he says he's willing to pay for a second opinion, but I think at this point, it is a moot point - I think maybe he's fueled by the fact that the others were all real. I just think it kind of sucks that NGC doesn't provide like a brief, general summary like that it's not genuine because... it's cast counterfeit or such. I guess it will always be a mystery as to how long ago super counterfeits began!
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