Featured Chicago ANA Show Report

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Tom B, Aug 10, 2014.

  1. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    By the way, a word on the grades I have seen. Based on an unscientific but large sample, the most common grades were PR70 for the gold (I have heard of only 1 PR68), Philly clad SP66-67, and Denver clad mostly a point higher.
     
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  3. chip

    chip Novice collector

    The mint asks some questions on their web site, that might be a good suggestion for some issues, my brother and I were funning about how the mint could have weeded out non-collectors from the ana show, maybe ask some simple question like what design was originally on the reverse of the Lincoln cent? A line hiree would not know how to answer,
     
  4. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Nice thought, but probably illegal. Once an item is listed for sale to the public, public means PUBLIC!
     
  5. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Would it be possible to give the mint a separate area for these type of sales. They need several windows and space to handle this type of crowd. The normal table could just handle the minor issues. Just a crazy thought.
     
  6. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

     
  7. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Well, there is a sort of precedent for that. The fourth 2009 cent was First Dayed in Washington while the 09 November Baltimore Whitman show ran. You wouldn't believe the stupid premiums dealers paid at Baltimore that day, for an ordinary String wrapped roll of 09 Philly cents![/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2014
  8. KoinJester

    KoinJester Well-Known Member

    Well I'm going to in hijack this thread.

    Tom, it was a pleasure to meet you and talk to you. Thanks for the write up.
     
    green18 likes this.
  9. Wehwalt

    Wehwalt Well-Known Member

    I believe that the ANA would have to have known in advance. The preparations of the dealers would have been considerable, from obtaining the people, to having large quantities of cash, likely by Brinks truck, brought into the security room. Too much preparation went into this to want to want to be defeated by the ANA seeing the lines, figuring out what was going on (it was never actually a secret and they could have asked the people in line) and changing the rules or pulling the plug. Obviously they did not anticipate it would get out of hand and probably the dealers minimized "we're going to pay some people to wait in line for us because obviously we have to run the booth. Any problem with that?" "Sure, go ahead." The ANA had more important issues on its mind, like arranging hundreds of dealers to everyone's satisfaction and mailing out umpteen hundred registration badges to members. Which they did, as usual, most efficiently. I've seen no evidence they are to blame in any way.

    I don't find the waiting in line part nefarious at all, I've taken advantage of rules other people have set in ways they did not expect, that's what people do. I'm just curious to know if the rules were set to effectively freeze out the casual collector, who most certainly would have taken a part if it did not involve waiting out all night with the dregs of the earth, while paying $200 and more for a hotel room, which the dregs were not. There are more efficient ways of running a line, wristbands and so forth, that are done these days when in-person lines are necessary in an Internet era, for example outside the Apple store when the new model comes out. But if the rules were set this way with the thought that the collector could not compete, then we are back in the bad old days of the 1930s when entire issues of commemoratives would be bought up by dealers, except they are being nominally "fair" about it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  10. pauliswilling

    pauliswilling New Member

    YES,I did read your post. I responded appropriate. The insanity was not due to the buyers.
     
  11. pauliswilling

    pauliswilling New Member

    I really do not want to respond to that because he is sue happy. After I talked to other dealers I found out no one likes him. He has sued NGC,PCGS and anyone he can. I would love to answer to protect others from it happening to them and everything I have wrote is the truth and you cannot sue over the truth so I will think about letting you know how it was.
     
  12. pauliswilling

    pauliswilling New Member

    T
    They did not have much problem last year,just longer lines but at least collectors could buy.
     
  13. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    As an attendee, I can say that the show, post-cancellation of sales, was far superior.

    Less crowded with non-collectors and less crazy.
     
    geekpryde, Mainebill and jaceravone like this.
  14. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Hardly a surprise, that. I made all my serious collector purchases from Thursday afternoon to the end. My single biggest purchase, a raw high BU 1916-S Buffalo, I made after 3/4 of the dealers had left, Saturday afternoon.
     
    jaceravone likes this.
  15. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    People really need to understand the atmosphere at Chicago. The mega-dealers had their lawyers ON SITE, not just on the phone, and every time the ANA floated an idea to stem the gold madness, the lawyers were all over Rhonda, Ostromecki, and the ANA's solicitor. They were ready to march right into court - UNTIL the Mint decided to end it after Thursday's sales. You can screw around with ANA's legal staff, but the US Gov has staff lawyers. No additional costs, just salaries they pay anyway.

    Who were these guys? Lee Minshull, L&C, SilverTowne, MarcOne, some Chinese dealer whose name I forget, and a few more. They invested several $100,000 up front and NEEDED JFK's to turn a profit due to the obscene infrastructure they had built up front. Some had advertised all over Chicago media for weeks to recruit and pay ($100 in advance, even if they got no coin) their paid line waiters. Every idea floated by ANA to help the situation met with objections from the Mint, the big dealers' lawyers, or both.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  16. jaceravone

    jaceravone Member

    Thanks for sharing that Kurt. That really sucks. But now it all makes sense on why I was treated and why Rhonda looked like she was at wits end.

    Collectors can complain all they want but those with money will always have power over those who do not.
     
  17. 19Lyds

    19Lyds Member of the United States of Confusion

    What?

    As near as I can tell, this type of sales pattern began with the 2013 Reverse Proof Buffalo at the Rosemont ANA Show. After that, then the HOF Debacle.

    To even "think" that a feeding frenzy would NOT occur for this particular coin was pure stupidity. The US Mint should accept all fault since they themselves created this situation by dropping past policy of NOT allowing over the counter sales until Household buying Limits had been lifted via online orders.

    I expect that this is Acting Mint Director Richard Peterson's "brain child".
     
  18. 19Lyds

    19Lyds Member of the United States of Confusion

    Increasing the limits from 500 to even more would have increased the frenzy.

    The ONLY way to address this situation would have been for the US Mint to NOT sell these over the counter! Online only until the household ordering limits were lifted.

    A previous poster mention the US Mint getting a "venue" close to the show stating that " The mint wins because they will have a ready source of customers already in place.".

    NEWS FLASH
    The US Mint already has a "ready source of customers". What the DO NOT NEED is walk up customers for over the counter sales on RELEASE DAY as, given past web site performance, there are literally thousands of folks wanting to order on that DAY.
     
  19. 19Lyds

    19Lyds Member of the United States of Confusion

    I can see your point completely in that, since this is a mint to demand issue, the "supposed" rarities with be the TPG Labels. I'd like to believe that folks aren't paying "premium dollars" for a particular TPG's label's but that would be stupid since I know for a fact that special TPG Labels have ALWAYS brought premiums. Either the Forst Strike™ labels beginning in 2005 or something as seemingly unimportant as Doily Labels or NGC Black Slabs.

    I do agree that a lot of fault lies with the TPG's but I STRONGLY believe that the US Mint should return to their previous policy of "No Over the Counter Sales until the Household Ordering Limits have been Lifted"! This is the way it was and I do not understand why they changed it unless it was under the direction of the Acting US Mint Director Richard Peterson.
     
    JPeace$ likes this.
  20. geekpryde

    geekpryde Husband and Father Moderator

    WOW, that is quite the statement. I hope there is some sort of misunderstanding or misstatement, as that seems to be quite illegal to me.
     
  21. statequarterguy

    statequarterguy Love Pucks

    Unless you regulate it for the benefit of all.
     
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