Check this CAC grading comparison

I am on the fence, Because there have been many an XF posted here especially early 1800's coins that have amazing eye appeal.
It is ok to have a lower grade coin, surpass the value of a MS64, even a 65. Valuing Eye appeal I would say is a slippery slope. As a collector I would like to see a turn back to the basics. And let the buyer and dealer hash out the value of a coin.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

That is not correct. Learning who grade teaches you how to spot problems and apply the current standards so that you don’t overpay. It’s just simple and complex to learn what to avoid.

 

Joshua Lemons, posted: "The backlash on Instagram is fairly strong. Lots of complaints about the strictness of CAC grading. [I wonder how many knowledgeable numismatists post on Instagram. Therefore, out of my ignorance I give that place very little regard]. It seems to be a common occurrence that if you send your coins to this company, they down grade or details. [That's because they are trying to clean up the grading "abuse" and the sloppyness that has taken place for almost forty years! Remember, TPGS are not perfect and VINTAGE COINS IN SOME SERIES ARE RARELY W/O PROBLEMS of some kind. Standards have been changed, values have increased, and market acceptability has become the norm.] I've never understood the desire to regrade [It's easy. Some reasons: greed, changing standards, different slab, correct errors] already graded coins, but I'm not much of a gambler."

Pickin and Grinin, posted: "I am on the fence, Because there have been many an XF posted here especially early 1800's coins that have amazing eye appeal. [That's one of the biggest problems associated with trying to place a value on a coin with a grade. We can measure the loss of surface with extreme accuracy; however, eye appeal CANNOT BE MEASURED!] It is ok to have a lower grade coin, surpass the value of a MS64, even a 65. Valuing Eye appeal I would say is a slippery slope. As a collector I would like to see a turn back to the basics. And let the buyer and dealer hash out the value of a coin." [Never going to happen! "They" want it complicated. Neverthe less, a coin is an object that can be measured and described in such detail that nothing about that description should change if it is stored correctly. That is what we atempted to do in the beginning. A grade was asigned at the first authentication service ONLY for the purpose of identifing that particular coin in the future among all the rest. A coin's value was of no consequence - once I took a cab ride to Virginia and back to DC with a "gem" EXHR Saint sent in for authentication to verify its grade from an experienced dealer for our internal records. It was the first I had ever seen.]

johnmilton, posted: Having been around for over 60 years, I'll tell you what a "wrong grade" is. It's when you try to sell a coin for which you have paid the current going rate or which now has a value established for the grade, which all of the offers are less than 50% of what you paid. I learned those lessons the hard way, and that was one of the ways I learned to grade."

When I explained that his experience concerning a lower price is not related to a grade I SHOLD HAVE ADDED "EXCLUSIVELY" as very often no one is offered what they paid for their coins.

Allowing @johnmilton to post: "That is not correct. Learning who grade teaches you how to spot problems and apply the current standards so that you don’t overpay. It’s just simple and complex to learn what to avoid."

I agree, ignorant collectors get raw deals. They should buy only graded coins. Unfortunately, most are also ignorant of this too. That's why I suggest any member who has not ever had one of their "gems" graded do so in order to check yourself and the folks you buy from!

 

It just goes to show how subjective coin
grading can be, everybody has there own
opinions and each has there own criteria
which varies slightly for the most part
but the guy that sent that peace dollar
got boiled alive with that reduction in grade
from CAC, I use to cross grade Military
payment certificates all the time between
PCGS and PMG and always got constant
results but nothing wild like there talking
about here…LOL

 

The coin at 5:55 in the video is a very natural looking Lincoln that is just a beautiful coin. I have quite a few unmolested cents from the same era that look just the same. I just cannot fathom the Questionable Color unless they intend to reject pretty much everything. (Caveat: It’s possible they were looking at some toning on the reverse, but I sure don’t have an issue with the obverse.)

From the video:



My ungraded 1941-S:

and 45-S

 

Note to Self: Do not send toned copper coins to CACG.

I agree with their grading on most of the Peace Dollars.

 

I'm probably being a bit skeptical here about CACG entering the TPG fold. The added premium people have been willing to pay for a green bean on their PCGS or NGC slabs most likely fueled the motivation to create CACG. Too many collectors/investors see the bean as a badge of honor for coins in their collections. As long as collectors/investors do this then CACG should reap the rewards as their business should be very profitable. Will there be a time when their standards become "less strict" to benefit their business, but not necessarily the numismatic community?

 

I'm glad the video was shared, @lardan. Describing these CAC graders as "super conservative" was kind, they're super off their nut, in my opinion.

 

Nope. Here is the problem. Coin dealers made grading so loose that another coin dealer had to explain in his 2008 grading guide what had been taking place in the previous decade and a half! AU's were now being graded as Mint State! In fact, all the upper grades had been changed as previous standards were destroyed. The newest grading service "looks" extremely strict because that's how far market acceptability and price increases destroyed the standards that anyone under fifty grew up with.

Long ago I told folks that when all the old dinosaurs die off, the "new" standards would be the only standards. It looks like this new TPGS may help put a halt to the extreme change and push back a little closer to the old ways. A lot of folks are going to be pissed and resist the move to what appears to be a much stricter standard closer to those of the first independent coin grading service in 1976.

 

In hindsight, I'll agree with all that. But, let's face it, they're each grading for their market. Look up "market grading" in the PCGS "lingo," they say as much, right there, that's their construction of the term, "market grading." It's all about the market, for their labels. Their price guides are about that, as well, their slabbed coins. CAC and the degree they're technical grading is so out of the mainstream by now, but that's not my real gripe. It's on the pretentious calls shown in the video they're making on the color, when the fact is, they don't know jack. Let the market decide that, not them. Just grade the goddamn things. Don't effectively take them off the market for the toning based on their imagination.

 

That's a good thing in my view, but do you view toning as the issue they think it is in terms of grading? That's where my concern lies - I don't think that the ordinary range of toning should have, in general, such an impact on grading. It seems more subjective - a matter of preference - to me. Blast white or rainbow - is one better than the other in terms of actual grade? If so, why?

 

So very happy I don't play the grading game. If a coin meets my standards, regardless of the markings on the slab, it's good enough for my collection. There are too many folks involved with splitting hairs to get a mega coup on an otherwise common coin....and the uncommon stuff is (IMHO) overgraded and overpriced which is why I avoid it. So many here think a green bean is the Holy Grail, and worthy of the second coming. Me? If the the beany is affordable (and worthy) I will cough up the 'jing'. Otherwise, I walk.......

 

Toning is oxidation. Oxidation is not necessarily a good thing although in some cases it protects the metal surface from further damage.

With coins, attractive, colorful oxidation (some folks point out it is the destruction of the original surface) increases a coin's eye appeal to many and thus the coin's value. Ocidation is a form of corrosion and when it reaches end-stage (black) the coin's surface is completely destroyed. You can see amazingly beautiful and very expensive coins in collections with corroded rims and edges. The damage to these coins is usually totally ignored in the market. When it must be defined, "environmental damage (ED)" has become the "vanilla" word for corroded! Some of those pretty copper cents look ED. I don't put end-stage corroded coins in my collection. Others do and some sell for lots of money.

Perhaps the new TPGS wants to educate the market about unacceptable corrosion.

PS IMO, toning and eye appeal should not be considered for a coin's grade. They affect its value. The ONLY solution to the grading mess is to remove value, rarity, eye appeal, coin type, ownership, etc. from the equation as was done decades ago! It will never happen as that system was rejected in favor of what we have evolved to now.

 

I dont' play the grading game myself, I own exactly 1 slabbed coin and have never sent one off to be graded. Not to say I never will. Just I have a level of ignorance on the ins and outs.

That being said - MY opinion is that value and grade are not mutually inclusive, nor are they mutually exclusive. However, each has thier purpose. A lower grade with better eye appeal will likely fetch a higher price, and that's fine. The market dictates the price, not the TPGs

Anyone remember Whose line is it anyway? Where everything is made up and the points don't matter.

 

Unfortunately, I must agree so nothing is going to change. Therefore, grading a coin will continue to be EXTREMELY SUBJECTIVE and EXTREMELY COMPLICATED for anyone not up to date with supply , demand , market conditions , current prices , and what is in fashion!

 

The only thing that is important to me is MY (right or wrong) personal GRADE.

 

Which is how it should be in my humble opinion

 

Coin grading will never be perfect; there will always be some subjectivity in the final grade, no matter who does the grading.

 

Nope. Here is the problem. Coin dealers made grading so loose that another coin dealer had to explain in his 2008 grading guide what had been taking place in the previous decade and a half! AU's were now being graded as Mint State! In fact, all the upper grades had been changed as previous standards were destroyed. The newest grading service "looks" extremely strict because that's how far market acceptability and price increases destroyed the standards that anyone under fifty grew up with.

Long ago I told folks that when all the old dinosaurs die off, the "new" standards would be the only standards. It looks like this new TPGS may help put a halt to the extreme change and push back a little closer to the old ways. A lot of folks are going to be pissed and resist the move to what appears to be a much stricter standard closer to those of the first independent coin grading service.