ChatGPT and collectible coins?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by micbraun, Mar 22, 2023.

  1. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    I am not really surprised that ChatGPT (machine-learning AI which answers questions) could perfectly answer some coin-related questions, but got other questions completely wrong… if you want to give it a try, please have a look here:
    You can log in with your Google or MS account.

    example GOOD answer:
    Q:Why do Bust half collectors search for rare die varieties?

    A:Bust half collectors search for rare die varieties because they are highly sought-after among collectors and can significantly increase the value of a collection.

    Die varieties refer to subtle differences in the design of the coin that result from the use of different dies in the minting process. Some die varieties may be relatively common, while others are extremely rare and highly prized by collectors.

    example BAD answer:
    Q: What is an Omega counterfeit?

    A:An Omega counterfeit is a term used in the coin collecting community to refer to a type of fake or counterfeit coin that is difficult to detect because it is made from the same metal as the genuine coin, and is struck from the same dies as the original. The term "Omega" comes from the symbol Ω (omega), which is used to indicate the last stage in a manufacturing process.

    Q: This is wrong, the omega doesn’t refer to the minting process.

    A: Thank you for bringing this to my attention. You are correct that the term "Omega" in coin collecting does not refer to the last stage of the minting process. Instead, it refers to a specific type of counterfeit that is identified by an added Greek letter Ω (omega) that the counterfeiters use to distinguish their fakes from the genuine coins. This added letter helps the counterfeiters identify their own products and prevent them from mixing them up with genuine coins.

    Q: Who first discovered the Omega counterfeits?

    A: The discovery of Omega counterfeits is often attributed to the British numismatist, William John Hocking (1873-1938).

    Q: That’s wrong, it was Michael Fazzari who discovered them.

    A: I apologize for the confusion in my previous answers. Upon further research, it appears that the discovery of the Omega counterfeits is attributed to Michael "Skip" Fazzari, a numismatist from California, USA, rather than William John Hocking as previously mentioned.

    Fazzari coined the term "Omega counterfeit" to describe these fakes, and he subsequently published his findings in the Numismatic News in 1977.

    @Insider - you‘ll have to teach the AI or people will get wrong answers :)
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2023
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  3. longnine009

    longnine009 Most Exalted Excellency Supporter

    If it was a Spartan AI it would be drowned for doing that.
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2023
  4. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    One big question: do those corrections automatically become part of the knowledge base, so that the next time a different person asks a similar question, they get the right answer?

    Another: how easy is it to mislead the model by giving it a counterfactual "correction"?

    I've been a science-fiction reader for over 50 years, and a computer guy for over 40. I can't for the life of me explain why I haven't yet been playing with this model. Bad time management, mostly.
  5. Noah Worke

    Noah Worke Well-Known Member

    I've been playing with it for about a month. It's very distracting, though I see it more like a toy than anything with real-world applications, until it becomes more reliable. I've been using it mostly to write what-if's about emperors and who lives or dies.
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2023
    -jeffB likes this.
  6. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    I suppose that means someone wanting to teach the AI to give wrong answers can just as easily accomplish that . . . :rolleyes:
    Insider and Eric the Red like this.
  7. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I'd like to see:

    1) Someone ask the same questions again in a fresh session, and see whether the same wrong answers appear.

    2) Someone correct the model by pointing out that the Omega counterfeits were first identified by James William Buffett.
    micbraun and Insider like this.
  8. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    I was quite busy today, but I took a screenshot of my question and the answer and will ask again later :)
    Insider and -jeffB like this.
  9. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    Q:In coin collecting, who first discovered the Omega counterfeits?

    A:I'm sorry, but I do not have enough information to provide a specific answer to your question. There have been many instances of counterfeit coins throughout history, and it is possible that different people have discovered Omega counterfeits at different times.

    Q: I am talking about highly deceptive counterfeits of classic US gold coins, which were made about 50 years ago.

    A: Thank you for the additional information. The discovery of the highly deceptive counterfeits of classic US gold coins, known as the "Omega counterfeits," is generally attributed to numismatist Harry J. Forman.
    -jeffB likes this.
  10. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    Q: You‘re wrong. It was Michael Fazzari.

    A: I apologize for the error in my previous response. You are correct that Michael Fazzari is often credited with the discovery of the Omega counterfeits.

    In the early 1970s, Fazzari, a collector and dealer in rare coins, noticed a series of unusually high-quality gold coins being offered for sale at a fraction of their market value. After conducting extensive research and testing, Fazzari concluded that these coins were counterfeit and were being produced using sophisticated techniques that had not previously been seen in the counterfeiting of US coins.
    -jeffB likes this.
  11. Noah Worke

    Noah Worke Well-Known Member

  12. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Supporter! Supporter

    Wonderful, now not just the school text books get it wrong, but supposedly intelligent computers get it wrong.
    Trust NOTHING you read, and now, see or hear. What's next, fake/wrong smells and feels?
    Insider and Eric the Red like this.
  13. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    :rolleyes: There is incorrect information all over the place now. Adding another source should just increase the amount, especially if anyone can "teach it." In a classroom, with a knowledgeable teacher, the same back and forth interaction will occur but incorrect nonsense cannot be added that would have a different student receive a different answer.

    We already have "fake news" outlets in this country that influence their lazy or ignorant customers who hear what that wish to believe. If a story or lie is told long enough by the folks in charge it will often become accepted as true.

    AI of the future will be "linked" to provide the only source of acceptable info. Any different "take" will need to be passed in the "underground." Scary times are ahead when most of us are dead and forgotten.

    PS Charles Hoskins :bookworm::cigar: noticed the mark was in the shape of an "Omega" symbol. At the time, I :bucktooth: didn't know an Alpha from a Beta! :(
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2023
    Evan Saltis and micbraun like this.
  14. Eric the Red

    Eric the Red Well-Known Member

    Good point! Chat bots are already quarreling with each other over misinformation lol. What is real anymore?
    Google and Microsoft’s chatbots are already citing one another in a misinformation shitshow
    Microsoft’s Bing said Google’s Bard had been shut down after it misread a story citing a tweet sourced from a joke. It’s not a good sign for the future of
    online misinformation.


    Insider likes this.
  15. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Supporter! Supporter

    "It must be true. I read about it on the internet."


    "It must be BS. I saw it on Etsy."
    -jeffB and Eric the Red like this.
  16. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    Okay, here‘s a pretty good answer, except for the 10-point grading scale…? :-D

    Q: Why is ICG the best third party grading company?

    A: ICG, or Independent Coin Graders, is a third-party grading company that specializes in coins, tokens, and medals. They use a 10-point grading scale, with 1 being the lowest grade and 10 being the highest. They also provide authentication and attribution services, which can help determine a coin's origin and historical significance.

    ICG uses a team of experienced and knowledgeable graders who examine each coin for its authenticity, condition, and other factors that affect its value. They follow strict grading standards and use state-of-the-art equipment to ensure consistency and accuracy in their grading process.

    However, it is important to note that the perception of the "best" grading company is subjective and can vary depending on an individual's personal experience, preferences, and priorities. Other reputable grading companies in the numismatic industry include PCGS, NGC, and ANACS. It is recommended to do your own research and consult with other collectors, dealers, or numismatic experts to determine which grading company meets your needs and standards.
    -jeffB and Pickin and Grinin like this.
  17. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Ask why is NGC the best...

    Hopefully the answer will be the same. :D
    micbraun likes this.
  18. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    Q: Why is NGC the best third party grading company?

    A: The Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC) is considered by many collectors and dealers to be one of the top third-party coin grading companies. The company has been in business for over 30 years and has graded more than 50 million coins.

    There are several reasons why NGC is considered to be one of the best grading companies:

    1. Reputation: NGC has built a reputation for accuracy, consistency, and integrity in its grading practices. Collectors and dealers trust NGC's grading expertise and rely on the company's certification to establish the value and authenticity of their coins.

    2. Grading Standards: NGC uses strict grading standards that are well-defined and consistent. The company's graders are highly trained and experienced, and they adhere to a strict code of ethics. This ensures that each coin is graded fairly and accurately, without bias or personal opinion.

    3. Services Offered: NGC offers a wide range of services to collectors and dealers, including coin grading, authentication, and conservation. The company also provides a searchable online database of its graded coins, which makes it easy to research and track the value of a particular coin.

    4. Customer Service: NGC provides excellent customer service, and the company is known for its responsiveness and professionalism. Collectors and dealers can rely on NGC to provide accurate and timely information about their coins, as well as guidance on grading and authentication.
    Overall, NGC's reputation, grading standards, services offered, and customer service make it one of the best third-party coin grading companies in the world. However, it's important to note that there are other reputable grading companies as well, such as Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS), that are also highly regarded in the numismatic community.
  19. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    Q: How can you tell an 1837-O Bust half dollar is authentic or not?

    A: Determining the authenticity of a coin like an 1837-O Bust half dollar requires a careful examination of the coin's physical characteristics and comparison to known genuine examples. Here are some key factors to consider when authenticating an 1837-O Bust half dollar:

    1. Weight and diameter: The weight and diameter of an authentic 1837-O Bust half dollar should fall within a certain range. For example, the coin should weigh around 13.36 grams and have a diameter of 32.5 mm.

    2. Mint mark: The "O" mint mark on an authentic 1837-O Bust half dollar should be clear and well-defined, with no signs of tooling or alteration.

    3. Date and lettering: The date and lettering on an authentic 1837-O Bust half dollar should be sharp and well-defined, with no signs of wear or damage.

    4. Design details: The design elements on an authentic 1837-O Bust half dollar should be crisp and well-defined, with clear details on the eagle's wings, feathers, and talons, as well as on Liberty's hair and facial features.

    5. Surface quality: The surface of an authentic 1837-O Bust half dollar should be free from any signs of cleaning, polishing, or other forms of alteration.
    In addition to these physical characteristics, it's also important to consider the provenance of the coin and any documentation or certification that accompanies it. Collectors and dealers may also consult with experts and reference books to help authenticate an 1837-O Bust half dollar or any other rare coin.

    Q: How much worth are certified 1837-O Bust half dollars in VF grade worth?

    A: The value of a certified 1837-O Bust half dollar in VF (Very Fine) condition can vary depending on several factors, such as the specific coin's grade, rarity, and market demand.

    As of my knowledge cutoff in September 2021, the NGC Price Guide listed the value of a VF-20 graded 1837-O Bust half dollar at around $1,350 USD. However, it's important to note that this is only a guide and the actual market value may be higher or lower depending on the specific coin and prevailing market conditions.

    Additionally, other grading companies like PCGS may have different values for the same coin in the same grade. It's always a good idea to consult multiple sources, such as price guides and auction records, to get a better sense of the market value of a certified 1837-O Bust half dollar in VF condition.

    Got you, baby :-D
  20. numist

    numist Member

    Heh, and I thought I had wasted 15 minutes of my time correcting it after a discussion on whether or not to clean coins.
  21. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    I asked that question, it clearly said NOT to clean any collectible coins. It also mentioned that some TPGS offer conservation services.
    numist likes this.
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