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Message:: [QUOTE="illini420, post: 1160685, member: 19423"]PCGS MS67RB Lincoln Wheat Cents are almost always stunning! To date, PCGS has certified only 62 wheat cents at the MS67RB grade!!! That is only 62 coins out of nearly 200,000 wheat cents certified by PCGS to date! The rarity of an MS67RB wheat cent is further highlighted in that more than half of them are from two dates; the 1939-S (pop 11 in MS67RB) and the 1941-D (pop 24 in MS67RB). While they are very hesitant to issue the MS67RB grade, it is still used by PCGS. Just in the past few years, the total pop of MS67RB wheat cents at PCGS has more than doubled (pop 29 as of 3/2007; up to 61 as of 10/2010; and now up to pop 62 today). All three 1909 VDB cents in PCGS MS67RB have been certified within the past two years. There's a good thread over on the CU forum which discusses the MS67RB grade in connection with wheat cents and has lots of pics too: <a href="http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=572404" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=572404" rel="nofollow">http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=572404</a>    I would bet almost anything that a 67RD or 67RB would never downgrade to an MS67BN if it turned in the PCGS holder... to date PCGS has NEVER graded a Lincoln wheat cent with a grade of MS67BN. After 25+ years in business, it is unlikely that will change. I believe what Lance says is correct. Most likely a 67RD which turns in the holder will not only lose the color designation, but would also be downgraded to a 66 or even 65. When looking at lots of Lincoln Cents, the surface quality of many MS65RB coins equals that of MS66RD examples. Similarly, MS66RB coins have the surfaces and luster of MS67RD examples. It is clear that original red color does bump up the grade of Lincoln wheat cents at PCGS... surely it should bump down the numerical grades if that color turns over time. In looking at lots and lots of wheat cents (though I wouldn't hold myself out to be an expert), it seems that when you put the color of the coin aside, an MS68RD coin is roughly equal to an MS67RB and roughly equal to an MS66BN.  That is, when looking just at the strike and surface details/lack of hits an MS68RD coin is equal to an MS67RB and they're both equal to an MS66BN.  Of course, the original RD color bumps the numerical grade.   This is demonstrated in the PCGS pop reports.  Here's a breakdown of the total wheat cents graded in MS66, MS67 & MS68: Brown:  69; 0; 0Red-Brown:  1094; 62; 0Red:  101,633; 10,343; 66 The popluations of MS68RD, MS67RB and MS66BN coins are almost equal to one another.  Those coins are clearly the best of the best when it comes to strike and overall details of the coins and clearly represent coins of nearly perfect quality.  The only difference between them is the original color which bumps up the numerical grade.      The question which hasn't been answered to my knowledge by PCGS is how much of the PCGS grading guarantee remains as it relates to copper coins since PCGS dropped the color guarantee on copper in 2010. Sure, if you bought your copper coins before 2010, the full guarantee still applies to you. But, when EyeEatWheaties buys his MS67RD in 2011 and that later turns RB or BN what is the result??? As discussed above, it is most likely that a 67RD wouldn't just get regraded as 67RB... and definitely wouldn't get a 67BN since that grade has never been used by PCGS for a wheat cent.  Instead, the coin should probably be regraded between 65BN-66RB. In this case, PCGS surely wouldn't cover the owner for the change of color, but would they still cover the drop in numerical grade under their grading guarantee??? Remember, PCGS just no longer covers the color designation, they still guarantee the grade of the coin. Or, would PCGS loosen their grading standards on high grade RB and BN coins and give the coin (although most likely undeserving) the 67RB or 67BN grade in order to avoid dropping the numerical grading and a payout under the grading guarantee???  Like I said, I don't know of anyone buying RD copper after 2010 and submitting under the grade guarantee...[/QUOTE]

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