Charles III 8 Reales Counterstamped Coin

Discussion in 'What's it Worth' started by Maxseamus, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. Maxseamus

    Maxseamus New Member

    Hello all,

    I have collected coins on and off since I was a kid and I have recently inherited a collection from my late aunt and it's gotten the collecting bug going again. Typically I have only U.S. coins but I have recently come across a counterstamped coin from Tortola. This coin came in the collection I inherited and it really caught my attention. Unfortunately I have no information on the history of this specific coin. I have done some research and found that these counterstamped coins could be somewhat valuable. It's also very possible that this one could be counterfeit. I did bring it to a local coin shop and the guy looked at it for a minute and handed it back saying it was probably fake. I always like to get a second opinion though. Any chance someone has run across one like this? Any idea where I could bring it to get it evaluated? IMG_0748.JPG IMG_0749.JPG

    Thank you!
     
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  3. wcoins

    wcoins GEM-ber

  4. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    What you have there is a Spanish Reale. These were legal tender in the United States and was the basis of our nations silver dollar. It was quite common for these to be split. It was how change was made when change was not available. In effect a "half dollar". It was also common for coins to be counterstamped by merchants back then. The counter stamp would have nothing to do with the minting of the coin. More likely a merchants way of advertising his wares. Cool piece of history you have there!

    Edit... As far as the value goes, a full Reale from that period typically brings around $75.00-100.00. Choice specimens may bring substantially more. It would be difficult to command any premium for yours unless there is some history tied to the counterstamp that is of interest to a particular collector.
     
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  5. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & odd Moderator

    I know there are fake counterstamps out there, but I dont know how prevalent they are, nor would I have the experience to determine if that Tortola example is real or not. In fact, I was unfamiliar enough with it to be struck by how strange the O's look, until I saw the example @wcoins posted.

    Though lacking in specific knowledge of Tortola c/s, I've had enough experience with counterstamps and Spanish Colonial silver to say that this piece looks OK to me in the general sense.

    Perhaps you should submit it to PCGS or NGC for authentication. Maybe the local coin dealer didn't know, and was just hedging his bets.
     
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  6. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & odd Moderator

    @Randy Abercrombie - in this case it's all about the counterstamp, which was an official (British) government stamp (on a Spanish host coin) rather than one done by a merchant.

    These cut and counterstamped fractions from Caribbean colonies can indeed be valuable.

    Here's one in a PCGS holder that went for $493.50.

    @Maxseamus- I think you need to submit that thing!

    I have a World lot going off to PCGS before long.
     
  7. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    Thank you for straightening me out! And my apologies for the bad info.
     
  8. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & odd Moderator

    It was meant well, and not so much bad info - it's just that certain official counterstamps on this kind of stuff changes the whole ballgame. One has to be pretty specialized to know about these issues. I have only a vague notion about some of them.

    Here's another instance of where the Brits took some liberties with a Spanish 8-reales coin (or pieces thereof), counterstamped it, and made it legal tender in some of their territories.

    As you can imagine, these things are popular and in demand with collectors now, and worth far in excess of what a regular old cut, damaged, or merchant-marked coin would be.

    Small wonder people have taken to creating false counterstamps.
     
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  9. kazuma78

    kazuma78 Well-Known Member

    I've watched a lot of tortola counterstamps sell and recently they have been bringing more money. If authentic, I bet it would easily bring 600-1300
     
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  10. Maxseamus

    Maxseamus New Member

    Thank you for all the feedback so far! I think I’m going to submit it to get authenticated. The only reason I think it may be fake is the outline of the counter stamp. Mine has more sharp angles to it as where the ones I have seen have a more rounded edge to it. I haven’t seen another counterstamp that looks exactly like mine.
     
  11. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    Well the counterstamp is definitely modern (wrong size/shape/style). Host coin doesn't appear to be genuine either, judging by the crude lettering the whole thing is likely a tourist repro from 1960's or later.
     
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  12. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    There is such a genuine counterstamp with sharp angles, but the lettering is different. Yours looks like a combination of the shape from one type and the lettering style from another, thus not genuine.
     
  13. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & odd Moderator

    Hm. Really? Would have fooled me, and I'd like to think I'm better than most tourist repros. But that being said, I suppose it wouldn't take much for a slightly better reproduction to fool me. If you're pretty sure on this (and I trust your judgement), I will defer to your obviously superior knowledge of these.

    Looked OK to me, without seeing the edge. *shrug*
     
  14. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    It looked good to me also at first glance. The trouble is that it doesn't have "the look" that triggers our intuition when looking at modern repros. The eye appeal on this one looks genuine. I appreciate your compliments, but I wouldn't consider my knowledge of anything to be superior :)

    Guess I should expand on my explanation for posterity. The counterstamp has the more angular shaped cartouche and smaller sized letters (in relation to the cartouche) of the type on the left, but the "TIRTILA" style lettering from the type on the right. (photos from NumisBids)

    tortola.jpg

    As for the host coin... the crude lettering leads me to believe souvenir/tourist piece rather than collector forgery, though it could just as easily be either. (photo from NGC)

    tortola2.jpg
     
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  15. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & odd Moderator

    Any longshot chance he should still try submitting it, or are you certain that would be a waste of money?
     
  16. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    I mean, certain it's not genuine. Waste of money? Might be worth it just to have a confirmed study/comparison example. To each their own lol
     
  17. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & odd Moderator

    Thanks. Proceed as you will, @Maxseamus.
     
  18. RomanTheRussian

    RomanTheRussian Mad about Reales

    Just to echo @Numismat 's comment - the C/S is most definitely a reproduction. The host is most likely one, as well. Would be neat to see the close-up of both the remaining edge, as well as the metal in the cut.
     
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  19. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & odd Moderator

    Note to self- do not purchase Caribbean counterstamped Spanish coins without learning a lot more ...
     
  20. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    The lettering on the reverse doesn't seem correct. (The H and the I) but would need a genuine coin from the same period to compare.
     
  21. wcoins

    wcoins GEM-ber

    The toning doesn't look right either. I agree - not genuine. Good eye @Numismat
     
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