Characteristics of cleaned coins

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by oldwormwood, Nov 22, 2015.

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  1. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Most coins can not be helped. They are what they are. Why make it worse?
     
    ldhair, Dec 1, 2015
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  3. tigerthecat

    tigerthecat New Member

    I'm new to collecting coins. Why does it matter so, so much if a 1 or 2 or 3 hundred year coin is cleaned? It's still an authentic coin isn't it? What's the big deal all about?
     
    tigerthecat, Dec 1, 2015
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  4. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Just to make sure you understand Spenser, all I have been doing in this entire thread is trying to be helpful. My sole purpose has been to explain things so that anybody, everybody, can understand. I have not been trying to say that anybody is "wrong" about anything.

    And just as an FYI, regarding what it says on the slab, meaning "Cleaning", the TPG's use of the single word is just shorthand because of limited space on the slab label. If you look you'll see that the slab has a code 92 on it. This what code 92 means - 92|N-2 Cleaned – surface damage due to a harsh, abrasive cleaning

    The proper way to clean a coin has been described and discussed at length in many, many threads on this forum. And there are very few ways that it can be done, but it CAN be done. Using the Search function will allow anyone to find these threads.
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 1, 2015
    #43 + Quote Reply
  5. spenser

    spenser Active Member

    Go to ebay type in harshly cleaned NGC 1899 $1 AU DETAILS. HARSHLY CLEANED 1901 NGC $1 HARSHLY CLEANED Have seen many others over the years.
     
    spenser, Dec 1, 2015
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  6. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Numismatists value originality. These are not just coins; they're history. They need to be preserved, not abraded.
     
    SuperDave, Dec 1, 2015
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  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Spenser I was merely trying to explain to you what the TPGs put on their slabs. When they put Cleaned or Cleaning on the slab, what they mean is Harshly Cleaned. They merely use the one word instead of both words because there is little space on the slab label - that's all.

    Here is a list of all the PCGS codes and what they really mean, regardless of what they put on the slabs. And this comes direct from PCGS, not me -


    No Grades
    PCGS will not grade and encapsulate any coins with the following problems:

    82 Filed Rims Rim(s) and/or edge is filed.

    83 Peeling Lamination Potential for sealing damage.

    84 Holed and/or Plugged Any filled or non-filled hole.

    86 No Opinion – our experts are unable to determine a coin’s authenticity –
    fee not refunded

    87 Not Eligible For Service Selected – the coin is too valuable for the
    chosen service level – fee refunded

    90 Questionable Authenticity – the coin is most likely a counterfeit.

    91|N-1 Questionable/Artificial Toning (or Questionable Color for copper)

    92|N-2 Cleaned – surface damage due to a harsh, abrasive cleaning

    93|N-3 Planchet Flaw - Metal impurity or defect in the planchet –
    depends on severity

    94|N-4 Altered Surface - Whizzed, harsh cleaning, thumbed over
    (using a pasty substance to cover defects or alter the appearance).

    95|N-5 Scratch - depends on the severity of the scratch. Rim dent.

    96|N-6 No Service – coins we do not certify (i.e. medals, some privately
    made issues, etc.) or cannot certify (i.e. over-sized coins)

    97|N-7 Environmental Damage – i.e. corrosion, coating (lacquer),
    excessively heavy toning, etc.

    98|N-8 Damage – deliberate surface damage, i.e. graffiti, spot(s) removed,
    etc. – depends on severity

    99|N-9 PVC (Poly-Vinyl-Chloride) – a plasticizer used to produce vinyl that
    will leach out of the holder and onto the coin, eventually damaging the
    surfaces.
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 1, 2015
    #46 + Quote Reply
  8. spenser

    spenser Active Member

     
    spenser, Dec 1, 2015
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  9. spenser

    spenser Active Member

    I'm done with this site!
     
    spenser, Dec 1, 2015
    #48 + Quote Reply
  10. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Watch the door
     
    Kentucky, Dec 1, 2015
    #49 + Quote Reply
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  11. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    You'll find the next site just like this one.
     
    SuperDave, Dec 1, 2015
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  12. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Why?
     
    ldhair, Dec 1, 2015
    #51 + Quote Reply
  13. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    I think it was definitely harshly cleaned. The scratches on the devices, and the grainy field surfaces are typical of a cleaned coin. It has obviously retained--the 1859 was the correct call on being cleaned.
     
    Morgandude11, Dec 1, 2015
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  14. TubeRider

    TubeRider Active Member

    The big three in coin collecting, as far as value goes is Condition, Rarity and Demand. Condition is HUGE! Say you were a collector of Deloreans, the stainless steel car they drove in 'Back To The Future' and there is vehicles offered by two different sellers. They both have only a couple thousand miles and have been garaged for all these decades. One has been perfectly cared for, the other was buffed harshly with an orbital, hard wire brush attached to a drill motor putting tens of thousands of circular scratches on the entire stainless steel surface of the car. That is what it is like when you look at a cleaned coin under magnification.
     
    TubeRider, Dec 9, 2015
    #53 + Quote Reply
  15. tigerthecat

    tigerthecat New Member

    What if there are no harsh marks or scratchs on the coin and it was dipped in a cleaning formula of some kind that brought out the luster of the coin? Does that lessen the value? If it does why?
     
    tigerthecat, Dec 9, 2015
    #54 + Quote Reply
  16. saltysam-1

    saltysam-1 Junior Member

    Because cleaning will remove the original patina on the coin. That's what cleaning is about, removing all surface build up. It cannot distinguish between the good surface affects and the bad surface affects. So yes, it will lessen value regardless of appearance. Not to mention that it has probably removed some of the surface metal to accomplish this. That's why repeated dipping causes a grayish look and sometimes even porous surfaces.
     
    saltysam-1, Dec 9, 2015
    #55 + Quote Reply
  17. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Depends on whether you can tell it's been done. If the coin doesn't look cleaned, it hasn't been cleaned.
     
    SuperDave, Dec 9, 2015
    #56 + Quote Reply
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  18. TubeRider

    TubeRider Active Member

    Bought this coin on Ebay some time ago, pictures they had posted looked great, and I was assured the coin was problem free. First pic looks pretty good 044.JPG 046.JPG 066.JPG , upon further inspection....
     
    TubeRider, Dec 9, 2015
    #57 + Quote Reply
  19. USS656

    USS656 Here to Learn Supporter

    If it has been dipped the surface will be affected and if you know what to look for you will see it.

    In this case the coin was harshly cleaned (soft Q-tip and eZest coin dip) by me because of the damage done by a Whitman album and storage conditions by previous owner. Look at the original surface and the lines in the cleaned surface. This is an extreme but you will almost always see the result of a cleaned/dipped coin. In this case the coin is better for it but still only worth melt. Makes a nice pocket piece though. :)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    USS656, Dec 9, 2015
    #58 + Quote Reply
  20. tigerthecat

    tigerthecat New Member

    Thanks for all of your posts. It will definitely help me when purchasing coins in the future.
     
    tigerthecat, Dec 9, 2015
    #59 + Quote Reply
  21. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Dipping, done right, is completely undetectable. The coin pictured there was a disqualified candidate for dipping - you don't touch circulated coins with dip, it's always obvious - and whatever was removed probably had nothing to do with the normal silver toning process which thiourea is designed to remove. Yes, thiourea will remove other stuff but there are far less intrusive solutions for things which are not chemically bonded to the silver.
     
    SuperDave, Dec 9, 2015
    #60 + Quote Reply
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