Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Characene AE Tetradrachm of Attambelos IV with Countermark
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="Marsyas Mike, post: 7296856, member: 85693"]I poked around CT and I didn't find much on the Characene Kingdom, and no threads with the word in the title. Since I never heard of the place until a couple days ago, I am probably not the person to start a thread on a whole big kingdom, but I got a coin from there. I bid on it because of the countermark, but I knew nothing about where it came from beyond the seller's (accurate) brief description. Here's what I know now... </p><p><br /></p><p>Wikipedia is a good introduction: </p><p><br /></p><blockquote><p><b>Characene</b> (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek" rel="nofollow">Ancient Greek</a>: Χαρακηνή), also known as <b>Mesene</b> (Μεσσήνη)<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene#cite_note-GP-2" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene#cite_note-GP-2" rel="nofollow">[2]</a> or <b>Meshan</b>, was a kingdom founded by the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples" rel="nofollow">Iranian</a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene#cite_note-3" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene#cite_note-3" rel="nofollow">[3]</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyspaosines" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyspaosines" rel="nofollow">Hyspaosines</a> located at the head of the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Gulf" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Gulf" rel="nofollow">Persian Gulf</a>. Its capital, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charax_Spasinu" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charax_Spasinu" rel="nofollow">Charax Spasinou</a> (Χάραξ Σπασινού), was an important port for trade between <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamia" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamia" rel="nofollow">Mesopotamia</a> and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India" rel="nofollow">India</a>, and also provided port facilities for the city of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susa" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susa" rel="nofollow">Susa</a> further up the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karun" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karun" rel="nofollow">Karun River</a>. The kingdom was frequently a vassal of the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_Empire" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_Empire" rel="nofollow">Parthian Empire</a>. Characene was mainly populated by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs" rel="nofollow">Arabs</a>, who spoke <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_language" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_language" rel="nofollow">Aramaic</a> as their cultural language.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBosworth1986201%E2%80%93203-1" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBosworth1986201%E2%80%93203-1" rel="nofollow">[1]</a> All rulers of the principality had Iranian names.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene#cite_note-FOOTNOTEEilers1983487-4" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene#cite_note-FOOTNOTEEilers1983487-4" rel="nofollow">[4]</a> Members of the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsacid_dynasty" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsacid_dynasty" rel="nofollow">Arsacid dynasty</a> also ruled the state.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene#cite_note-FOOTNOTEGregoratti2017133-5" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene#cite_note-FOOTNOTEGregoratti2017133-5" rel="nofollow">[5]</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene</a></p></blockquote><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1276617[/ATTACH] </p><p><br /></p><blockquote><p>By NordNordWest - self-made, usingGTOPO-30 Elevation Data by USGS, CC BY 3.0, <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=5829256" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=5829256" rel="nofollow">https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=5829256</a></p></blockquote><p><br /></p><p>The Wikipedia article on the capital city Charax Spasinu (what a cool name!) contains an interesting anecdote involving Trajan: </p><p><br /></p><blockquote><p>"In AD 116, the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Emperor" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Emperor" rel="nofollow">Roman Emperor</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trajan" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trajan" rel="nofollow">Trajan</a> visited Charax Spasinu – his most recent, easternmost and shortest-lived possession. He saw the many ships setting sail for <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India" rel="nofollow">India</a>, and wished he were younger, like <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great" rel="nofollow">Alexander</a> had been, so that he could go there himself." <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charax_Spasinu" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charax_Spasinu" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charax_Spasinu</a></p></blockquote><p><br /></p><p>As for the coin, I hit the jackpot on information - Ed Dobbins published a paper "Countermarked Characene Tetradrachms of Attambelos IV", in the <i>American journal of Numismatics</i>. no.7-8 1995-1996 and available here for free, thanks to the Hathi Trust: </p><p><br /></p><p><a href="https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000025519863&view=1up&seq=91&q1=%22american%20journal%20of%20numismatics%22" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000025519863&view=1up&seq=91&q1=%22american%20journal%20of%20numismatics%22" rel="nofollow">https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000025519863&view=1up&seq=91&q1="american journal of numismatics"</a></p><p><br /></p><p>Dobbins' article is terrific - not only for the coins, but the historical background was informative and interesting. The Characene kingdom was in a constant squeeze with Elymais, Parthia, the Seleucids, Rome, and Petra. Little is known of Attambelos IV, but given the number of coins he issued, he seems to have reigned during a time of prosperity. (Note that a lot of IV's coins were attributed to Attambelos III - so there is some confusion - at least I was confused - in attributions for these)</p><p><br /></p><p>Here's mine - it is a bit crude, but after looking at a bunch of them on acsearch, this one isn't too bad - if nothing else, it is one of the few with (most of) the date on the flan. The Characenes used Seleucid dating, so things are very specific chronologically. Dobbins examines hoards of these and even comes up with a pretty specific dating system for the countermarks found on these as well. </p><p><br /></p><p>That's Herakles on the reverse, holding his club on his knee. Many of them are found countermarked, as this one is. The countermarks are carefully placed so as not to encroach on the king's face, making it likely they were official Characene issues (per Dobbins' article). It is possible mine has a second countermark by the king's brow - or it is a random pit. </p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1276628[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1276629[/ATTACH] </p><p><b>Kingdom of Characene Æ Tet.</b></p><p><b>Attambelos IV</b></p><p><b>SE 371 (59-60 A.D.)</b></p><p><b>Charax-Spasinu Mint</b></p><p>Diademed, bearded head right /[BAC...] ATTA[M...], Herakles seated left on rock, holding club; monogram (5/6) above, B (sym. 7) above knee; TOA (date) in ex.</p><p>cf. BMC 7; DCA 490.</p><p>(15.34 grams / 23 x 21 mm)</p><p><b>Countermark:</b> Monogram in 4 mm x 4 mm square. Dobbins No. 1. </p><p><br /></p><p>"The three monogram countermarks 1, 2 and 3 were added sometime after 112 A.D." (Dobbins)</p><p><br /></p><p>Well, that's the extent of my cut 'n' paste knowledge via Wikipedia and Ed Dobbins' article via the Hathi Trust. I'd love to see more of these if they are out there. As always, corrections welcome - this is all brand new to me.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Marsyas Mike, post: 7296856, member: 85693"]I poked around CT and I didn't find much on the Characene Kingdom, and no threads with the word in the title. Since I never heard of the place until a couple days ago, I am probably not the person to start a thread on a whole big kingdom, but I got a coin from there. I bid on it because of the countermark, but I knew nothing about where it came from beyond the seller's (accurate) brief description. Here's what I know now... Wikipedia is a good introduction: [INDENT][B]Characene[/B] ([URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek']Ancient Greek[/URL]: Χαρακηνή), also known as [B]Mesene[/B] (Μεσσήνη)[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene#cite_note-GP-2'][2][/URL] or [B]Meshan[/B], was a kingdom founded by the [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples']Iranian[/URL][URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene#cite_note-3'][3][/URL] [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyspaosines']Hyspaosines[/URL] located at the head of the [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Gulf']Persian Gulf[/URL]. Its capital, [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charax_Spasinu']Charax Spasinou[/URL] (Χάραξ Σπασινού), was an important port for trade between [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamia']Mesopotamia[/URL] and [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India']India[/URL], and also provided port facilities for the city of [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susa']Susa[/URL] further up the [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karun']Karun River[/URL]. The kingdom was frequently a vassal of the [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_Empire']Parthian Empire[/URL]. Characene was mainly populated by [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs']Arabs[/URL], who spoke [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_language']Aramaic[/URL] as their cultural language.[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBosworth1986201%E2%80%93203-1'][1][/URL] All rulers of the principality had Iranian names.[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene#cite_note-FOOTNOTEEilers1983487-4'][4][/URL] Members of the [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsacid_dynasty']Arsacid dynasty[/URL] also ruled the state.[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene#cite_note-FOOTNOTEGregoratti2017133-5'][5][/URL] [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characene[/URL][/INDENT] [ATTACH=full]1276617[/ATTACH] [INDENT]By NordNordWest - self-made, usingGTOPO-30 Elevation Data by USGS, CC BY 3.0, [URL]https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=5829256[/URL][/INDENT] The Wikipedia article on the capital city Charax Spasinu (what a cool name!) contains an interesting anecdote involving Trajan: [INDENT]"In AD 116, the [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Emperor']Roman Emperor[/URL] [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trajan']Trajan[/URL] visited Charax Spasinu – his most recent, easternmost and shortest-lived possession. He saw the many ships setting sail for [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India']India[/URL], and wished he were younger, like [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great']Alexander[/URL] had been, so that he could go there himself." [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charax_Spasinu[/URL][/INDENT] As for the coin, I hit the jackpot on information - Ed Dobbins published a paper "Countermarked Characene Tetradrachms of Attambelos IV", in the [I]American journal of Numismatics[/I]. no.7-8 1995-1996 and available here for free, thanks to the Hathi Trust: [URL]https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000025519863&view=1up&seq=91&q1=%22american%20journal%20of%20numismatics%22[/URL] Dobbins' article is terrific - not only for the coins, but the historical background was informative and interesting. The Characene kingdom was in a constant squeeze with Elymais, Parthia, the Seleucids, Rome, and Petra. Little is known of Attambelos IV, but given the number of coins he issued, he seems to have reigned during a time of prosperity. (Note that a lot of IV's coins were attributed to Attambelos III - so there is some confusion - at least I was confused - in attributions for these) Here's mine - it is a bit crude, but after looking at a bunch of them on acsearch, this one isn't too bad - if nothing else, it is one of the few with (most of) the date on the flan. The Characenes used Seleucid dating, so things are very specific chronologically. Dobbins examines hoards of these and even comes up with a pretty specific dating system for the countermarks found on these as well. That's Herakles on the reverse, holding his club on his knee. Many of them are found countermarked, as this one is. The countermarks are carefully placed so as not to encroach on the king's face, making it likely they were official Characene issues (per Dobbins' article). It is possible mine has a second countermark by the king's brow - or it is a random pit. [ATTACH=full]1276628[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1276629[/ATTACH] [B]Kingdom of Characene Æ Tet. Attambelos IV SE 371 (59-60 A.D.) Charax-Spasinu Mint[/B] Diademed, bearded head right /[BAC...] ATTA[M...], Herakles seated left on rock, holding club; monogram (5/6) above, B (sym. 7) above knee; TOA (date) in ex. cf. BMC 7; DCA 490. (15.34 grams / 23 x 21 mm) [B]Countermark:[/B] Monogram in 4 mm x 4 mm square. Dobbins No. 1. "The three monogram countermarks 1, 2 and 3 were added sometime after 112 A.D." (Dobbins) Well, that's the extent of my cut 'n' paste knowledge via Wikipedia and Ed Dobbins' article via the Hathi Trust. I'd love to see more of these if they are out there. As always, corrections welcome - this is all brand new to me.[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Characene AE Tetradrachm of Attambelos IV with Countermark
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...