Ceaning or Die polish

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Steve66, Dec 12, 2014.

  1. brg5658

    brg5658 Well-Known Member

    I always love when a thread gets to the point of Doug playing the victim.

    That's when I stop reading...so to the OP, if you have any further questions about this coin or the 20/50 Franc types of this coin, I'm happy to answer them via Private Message.
     
    Coinchemistry 2012 likes this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Coinchemistry 2012

    Coinchemistry 2012 Well-Known Member

    You seemed highly critical of Bob and Jason's coins, and even asked the latter how he knew those were die polishing lines. If those were not lines imparted by the die as part of the manufacturing process, are you suggesting that those pieces are problem pieces? I am trying to read between the lines here, but don't want to put words in your mouth.
     
  4. robec

    robec Junior Member

    I believe Doug said, or maybe someone credited Doug as saying, that any coin with die scratches, die polish, etc should be considered problem coins and as such should not receive a grade.
     
    Insider likes this.
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Yes, I asked that. But I asked it because I wanted to know if he actually knew if they were die polishing lines, or if he was just taking the TPGs word for it since the coin was slabbed. His answer was that he knew it because the lines were raised on the coin.

    Well OK, that works, except for one thing - scratching a coin post strike also produces raised lines. So the lines being raised, in and of itself, proves nothing.

    On the dime and the quarter that Jason posted in post #21, there are raised lines and incuse lines, and more than just a few are incuse and occurred post strike. That much, at least to me, is clear in the pictures. So yes, those coins very well may be problem coins, but it would take an in hand exam to determine, for sure,if they are problem coins or not.

    But that aside, there is the other issue of the assigned grade. But since I do not know the assigned grade of those coins, I can't really speak to that issue regarding these specific coins.


    But in a nutshell the issue is this - coins with marks, lines, whatever, even if those lines are a result of the minting process, are not deserving of higher grades because the marks, lines, whatever are flaws. And all flaws regardless of cause are a detriment and must be accounted for in the grade.That is a basic rule of grading.

    And that is the problem that I have with this issue, because the TPGs completely ignore that rule. Just like they ignore post strike scratches and hairlines on a coin when there are legitimate lines from the minting process on the coin as well.
     
  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Doug has never said that.
     
  7. robec

    robec Junior Member

    Do you think a flawed coin should receive a grade from a TPG?
     
  8. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    Stop saying that, it is not true!
     
    Coinchemistry 2012 likes this.
  9. Vegas Vic

    Vegas Vic Undermedicated psychiatric patient

    Not as a challeng to you but for education can you post an example so I can see what you are talking about

    1. Coin graded with both hairlines and die marks nos
    2. Coin with raised metal from scratch
     
  10. torontokuba

    torontokuba Thread Crapper & Hijacker, TP please.

    Here is a treat. Mint coin. Can't see any lines crossing the frosted devices. All lines look raised with 10x magnificaton.

    Screen shot 2014-12-22 at 7.10.04 PM.png
     
  11. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I assure you - in hand, they are very clearly all mint-made lines. The Roosevelt grades 66PL, the Washington is 65PL. If you would like an in-hand look at these coins, I will mail them to you (at your expense). You can send them to whatever expert or photographer you like for additional opinions. These coins do not have post mint hairlines.

    Also, please indicate which areas you believe to have incuse lines (from my pictures).
     
  12. Coinchemistry 2012

    Coinchemistry 2012 Well-Known Member

    Thank you for taking the time to respond. Regardless of the raised vs. incused line debate, it would seem that luster or the reflectivity of the fields would tell be dispositive.
     
  13. Steve66

    Steve66 Coin People

    I sent the coin in for grading.
    image.jpg
     
    brg5658, Paul M. and torontokuba like this.
  14. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Just leaving this here for myself to look at next time I'm tempted to judge a coin from a photo... :rolleyes:
     
    Kapimono likes this.
  15. Steve66

    Steve66 Coin People

    Yep.... It was hard judging it, in hand.
    There was a lot going on with this coin.
     
  16. torontokuba

    torontokuba Thread Crapper & Hijacker, TP please.

    I guess, despite 50 years of experience, an inflexible, uncompromising and unwavering person may just end up discarding and overlooking a boatload of beautiful mint coins.
     
    Steve66 likes this.
  17. Steve66

    Steve66 Coin People

    :woot::D That's Great !!!
     
  18. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    This is 100% garbage. The only way a SCRATCH to a minted coin can possibly have any raised metal is at its MICROSCOPIC borders. Or if someone makes a deep scratch (at an angle) into the coins surface. This can raise metal on ONE SIDE of the scratch. Coins like this with the scratch in an X pattern are offered as "Struck from cancelled dies) to other uninformed collectors. Scratches are INTO the surface.

    Later we'll take about the appearance that a SCRATCH on a Die makes on a coin.

    No more tonight...Downton Abby!
     
  19. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Oh dear.......film at Eleven.
     
    Insider and Coinchemistry 2012 like this.
  20. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    Yeah, die polish and Dan Carr all at once. Maybe it's time to start a thread on slabbing in the Ancients forum. :p
     
    Coinchemistry 2012 likes this.
  21. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Oh dear. Let's not involve those fellows. They are way too friendly and polite. Let's just keep it here in the 'hurl a rotten tomato' forum....... devil.gif
     
    Insider likes this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page