Casino Coin, Is worth the gamble?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Skubalon, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. Skubalon

    Skubalon Member

    This coin (MS66+) lists on greysheet for $1,300.00. But because it has a (+) designation, it could be sent to a TPG to be reholdered and come back a (MS77). At an (MS77) grade greysheet would value this coin to be worth $35,000.00.
    Would you payout $5,874.99 for the possibly of an almost $30,000 return?

    Robert91791 likes this.
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  3. frankjg

    frankjg Well-Known Member

    If the coin could really get that type of regrade and return, don’t you think the seller would do that themselves? No one in their right mind leaves 25k on the table.
  4. Gregg

    Gregg Monster Toning

    My understanding is that the '+' means the coin has great eye appeal for the grade, not that it necessarily is 'almost the next grade'.

    That said, one of these is currently at auction on Heritage and it has been bid up to $7200.00 (with fees). The most recent sale was for $9000.00 with earlier auctions going for about $5,000.00.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  5. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Here is what NGC says about the plus:

    “NGC assigns a + to coins at the high end of their assigned grade, approaching the quality requirements for the next grade. For example, a coin graded NGC MS 64+ is close to the quality of a coin graded NGC MS 65.

    In addition to their superior technical merit, coins that receive a + must have above-average eye appeal.”

    So a plus, with NGC, means both high end for the grade and above-average eye appeal.

    As for the OP’s coin, I agree with the others that the odds are low. The person selling it (or someone before) has likely tried multiple times to get the upgrade.
    Gregg likes this.
  6. Gregg

    Gregg Monster Toning

    I found that; however, what I couldn't find is the PCGS meaning of the '+' sign.
    I'd read somewhere that the '+' for PCGS was only a eye appeal designation but I could be wrong about that. Irrelevant, I know, as the coin is in a NCG holder.

    For my part I'm uncomfortable with the whole resubmit lotto. Getting an extra 30K out of a coin because the label seems wrong to me.

    ddddd likes this.
  7. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    The damage on the wing tips and right above peace on the reverse should keep this coin from a 67.
  8. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    It has what it takes to be a 66+ but it lacks something to make it a 67. The plus does not mean what you think it does. And just because the + is there is no guarantee it will magically become a 67 coin. No, I would not risk that amount of money on this coin. If I owned the coin and thought it stood a chance of a grade higher, I wouldn't sell it as a 66, I'd resubmit it myself.
  9. SilverDollar2017

    SilverDollar2017 Morgan dollars

    IMO, not quite a 67.
  10. Robert91791

    Robert91791 Supporter! Supporter

  11. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster It seemed like a good idea at the time.

    The crackout/upgrade game is extremely difficult to win. Essentially, you’re betting that you have the knowledge of the series and TPG grading requirements to find something that other knowledgeable collectors/dealers have overlooked. Do you feel confident that you have that skill? If you feel you know what you’re doing and are as good or better than many of the top level dealers, then pull the trigger.

    Please note this isn’t a personal attack on your knowledge
    , it’s just an objective look at what is needed to win the TPG game. IMO, if you have to ask if it’s worth the gamble, then you probably shouldn’t take the risk.
  12. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Well-Known Member

    What did I miss <scratching his head>? The OP thinks an MS 66+ would jump to a MS 77?
  13. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky Supporter

    lol MS-70 ? is there such a grade for a peace dollar ?
  14. CoinBlazer

    CoinBlazer Numismatic Enthusiast

    Is he talking the guth scale?
    Kentucky likes this.
  15. Skubalon

    Skubalon Member

    A better look.

  16. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Looks like struck through a hair. Too much wear on hair for a 66. Doesn't change my opinion.
  17. Gregg

    Gregg Monster Toning

  18. Gregg

    Gregg Monster Toning

    If you decide to buy the coin you can send it to me.
    I'll grade it - if it is a solid MS67 I'll send it back and if not I'll keep it for you.

    I'm your friend in need.
    ddddd and Pickin and Grinin like this.
  19. juris klavins

    juris klavins Well-Known Member

    Lol, MS77 would be worth at least $35 million, not 35,000 :D
  20. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    Doesn't even look like a 66+.
    It's not upgrading.
  21. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    At PCGS the plus is related to the grade but also has an eye appeal factor.

    “Plus Grades
    High end coins for the grade, i.e. "plus" grades, cannot have negative or below average eye appeal for the grade.”

    Also, I found this from when plus grades were announced in 2010:

    Where the following was stated by David Hall:
    “The term "plus" has been part of the everyday trading and grading lingo for years. The high end for any particular grade represents the top 30 percent of the scale within a grade and I estimate that the plus designation would apply to approximately 15 percent to 20 percent of the coins within any individual grade.“
    Gregg likes this.
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