Carthaginians in Sicily

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by RichardT, Aug 11, 2020.

  1. RichardT

    RichardT Well-Known Member

    *Cough*. Thanks for sharing your coin AncientJoe. Really, whenever I see this obverse I mentally shunt it into the "Unaffordable So Don't Look" category. Just beautiful!
     
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  3. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    I love me some Carthaginian coins, and their period(s) in Sicily produced some pretty cool coins. As if the Herakles tets weren't beautiful enough, the issues with Tanit/Persephone would be the ones I'd personally chase after to add one to my collection (at some point... In the far future... When budget is bigger). In all honesty, there is one ending in just a could days that I was vying for when I saw its start amount was 250 CHF... but now that it's close to ending, it around 3 times that with pre-bids, and I can only imagine will be higher when it hammers. So I'll have to be happy with some of my (much) smaller AR coins and AE coins. :) What they lack in chunky silver they make up for in interest lol

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    Punic Occupation of Sicily, Akragas, Sicily
    AR Quarter Shekel, Circa 213-211 BC, 2nd Punic War
    Obverse: Wreathed head of Triptolemos right.
    Reverse: Free horse prancing right, Punic letters “HT” below.
    References: SNG ANS 1233; SNG Cop 380; HGC 2, 173
    Size: 14mm, 1.86g
    Ex: Artemide Aste Auction 50E (2/29/2020), Lot #86

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    Zeugitania, Carthage, Circa 300 BC
    AE ½ Shekel, Uncertain Sicilian Mint
    Obverse: Date palm with fruits.
    Reverse: Horse standing right, head turned to look back.
    References: MAA 22, SNG Cop 126
    Size: 16.3mm, 2.91g

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    Zeugitania, Carthage, 400-350 BC
    AE Unit, Carthage or Sicilian Mint
    Obverse: Head of Tanit left, wearing wreath of grain and earrings.
    Reverse: Horse galloping right.
    References: MAA 15, SNG Cop 96
    Size: 16mm, 5.1g

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    Zeugitania, Carthage, 400-350 BC
    AE Unit, Carthage or Sicilian Mint
    Obverse: Head of Tanit left, wearing wreath of grain and earrings.
    Reverse: Horse galloping right.
    References: MAA 15, SNG Cop 96
    Size: 16mm, 4.32g
    Notes: Very unique rendering of horse on reverse, with long neck design.

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    Zeugitania, Carthage, 350-320 BC
    AE Unit, Possibly from other mints (Sicily?)
    Obverse: Palm tree, with two clusters of dates.
    Reverse: Head of horse right.
    References: SNG COP 102, Müller 317-318, MAA 20
    Size: 17.8mm, 5.5g

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    Zeugitania, Carthage, 350-320 BC
    AE Unit, Possibly from other mints (Sicily?)
    Obverse: Palm tree, with two clusters of dates.
    Reverse: Head of horse left (variation).
    References: MAA 20 var (horse head left), SNG COP 102 var (same), Müller 317-318 var (same)
    Size: 17mm, 3.10g
    Notes: Overstruck on type MAA 15 (400-350 BC).

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    Zeugitania, Carthage, AE Unit
    Struck ~350 BC just before the 3rd Carthaginian invasion of Sicily 345-340 BC
    Overstruck on coin from 400-350 BC, West Sicilian mint
    Obverse: Youthful male head (Trittolemo?) to left between two grain ears.
    Reverse: Horse galloping right.
    References: SNG COP 120, MAA 19 (overstruck on MAA 18)
    Size: 18 mm, 3.46g
    Notes: Interesting overstrike; the head of Tanit is visible on the reverse, and the horse standing before palm tree on the obverse.
    (Top two images are of coin, MAA 19, compared to a coin it was overstruck on at bottom, MAA 18.)
    The male image lacks signs of a deity and may be one of the leaders of the Punic forces.
     
  4. Hamilcar Barca

    Hamilcar Barca Well-Known Member

    Beautiful coin AncientJoe. I have always wanted one like this. One day..........
     
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  5. Egry

    Egry Well-Known Member

    I know this is not a Carthaginian coin from Sicily, but it is probably my favourite coin of all, it is even my avatar. I think I’ve shared it before, but here we go again...

    61308F0C-D1C9-4936-9BC4-760542C7FA3E.jpeg 652B2B28-36E5-4788-B427-E5853974BB3C.jpeg
     
  6. Egry

    Egry Well-Known Member


    Wow! Now that is epic! I can’t stop looking at it. Is it for sale???
     
  7. Hamilcar Barca

    Hamilcar Barca Well-Known Member

    Thanks Egry! The Carthaginian gold was the coin that first drew me into ancients. The first time I saw one I fell in love with it's artistry and uncluttered design. Especially the proud horse! I finally got one earlier this year. This is the coin I show friends when they want to see examples from my collection.
     
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  8. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    A.J., That's a breathtaking example of numismatic art :jawdrop:! It can stand next to the finest Greek decadrachms & not be out of place :woot:. I hope the Greek artist who engraved the dies was paid well :smuggrin:. How would you date the coin & how much does it weigh o_O?
     
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  9. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    Edessa, I love the playful horse on your coin :D! It looks like he's playing polo without a rider :hilarious:.
     
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  10. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    Ulp! Staggering beauty, AJ!!!!
     
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  11. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    As others have said, your's is a lovely coin and lively horse. I notice what looks like Punic lettering above its hind end (mostly triangular with a descendent "tail"). I want to say I have similar, though very worn, area above mine's posterior. Earlier this year I got MMA ("Les Monnaies De L'afrique Antique"), and Alexandropoulos doesn't mention any lettering or symbols on these.

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    Zeugitania, Carthage, 203-201 BC
    BL 1½ Shekel or Tridrachm, Second Punic War
    Obverse: Wreathed head of Tanit left.
    Reverse: Horse standing right, head left; pellet between hind legs.
    References: SNG COP 396, MAA 81c
    Size: mm, g (I still need to record these lol)
    Notes: Black surfaces; The billon of this issue has extremely low silver content, such that nearly all examples appear to be bronze.

    20200812_121221.jpg
    20200812_114118.jpg 20200812_114105.jpg
    (Google translated)
    SmartSelect_20200812-113925_Translate.jpg SmartSelect_20200812-114016_Translate.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
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  12. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Show it. :)
     
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  13. Hamilcar Barca

    Hamilcar Barca Well-Known Member

    Since you asked:
    ZEUGITANIA, Carthage. Circa 310-270 BC. Stater (7.58 gm; 19 mm). Wreathed head of Tanit left, wearing triple-pendant earring and necklace; pellet in field before neck / Horse standing right on single ground line; three pellets below. Jenkins Lewis Group V, 280-97; MAA 10; SNG Copenhagen 975.
    upload_2020-8-12_11-49-45.png
     
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  14. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Jest luvum!

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    Africa, Zeugutana, Carthage
    Anonymous BCE 310-290
    EL Dekadrachm - Stater
    18.5mm, 7.27g
    Obverse: Wreathed head of Tanit left, eleven pendants on necklace; pellet before neck
    Reverse: Horse standing right; three pellets below exergue line
    Ref: MAA 12; SNG Copenhagen 136
     
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  15. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Well-Known Member

    Thanks! It weighs 16.90g and is dated 320-310 BC. It definitely has a very similar style to Euainetos dekadrachms, including the obverse shell although unless the engraver lived to a spry 120+ years old, it can't have been executed by the same hand.
     
  16. Edessa

    Edessa Well-Known Member

    Justin, thank you for the research! MMA is definitely a book on list to acquire. With the other encrustations, I had not noticed that those might be symbols. Definitely something worth a further look into.

    PS: I checked Müller, Numismatique de l'ancienne Afrique. (Copenhagen, 1860 - 1862, available online thru archive.org). On number 231, Müller does not list symbols or letters above the horse.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
  17. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    One of my favorite Horse stances on a Carthage coin...

    upload_2020-8-13_5-21-22.png
    Carthage
    Carthage mint
    2nd Punic War
    203-201 BCE
    BI 1½ Shekels (can be TriDrachm)
    24mm 9.4 g
    Wreathed Head Tanit -
    Horse standing R head L, raised foreleg Pellet
    SNG COP 394
     
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  18. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Wow, I didn't know Google Translate could handle uploaded documents! When did they add that functionality, or was it there all along?

    I just tried it-- did a screen shot of the preface of Dattari. First attempt didn't work because the shot was captured as a .png. I converted it to a .pdf and the returned result was a blank page :(. I tried once more, first cleaning up the image a bit and sharpening the text but it still returned a blank page.

    Do you have any tips for using an uploaded document in Google Translate?
     
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  19. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    You don't need to create an image file to translate it. Google the phrase "Google lens" and you will see what I mean.
     
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  20. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    I use the Google Translate app on my phone and use the Camera option and it does it in real time (well, you hold still on the text for a second and the overlay pops up). I then took a screenshot of the results. For full page reading I use the "Scan" option in the camera mode and it's like you take a photo and it, then take a couple seconds to analyze it, it then highlights all available words ir recognizes using OCR, I use the select all option and it turns all that into translated text to read (though it's all mashed together, so you do some contextual sleuthing using the original layout.

    Edit: I recorded a quick screen capture of the few options available: real-time translation, scan from camera, and scan from imported image... Any of which will deliver you a page of translated content in some 5 seconds.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
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  21. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Thank you. I downloaded... very interesting from a small test that I did. Had no clue this was available.
     
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