Capped bust half dollar experts. Real or fake?

Hello all,

here I have a supposedly 1828 square 2 large 8s capped bust half dollar in pretty okay shape. I got this with three other busy half’s today two including this coin from one seller and another from a separate seller. For some reason this one felt weird to me a bit lighter and the high points of the coin can be felt very well. I go to weigh the other two coins and my scale is pretty spot on these are supposed to weigh 13.48 and it bounces from 13.4-13.5 so good enough for what I do. The first two are the exact same weight needed and this one came in at a low ball number of 12.9! I did the ring test which I know everyone had their take on it but I’ve heard fake coins compared to silver and it’s definitely it’s own pitch this was the same pitch and rang the same time length as the others. Same dimensions perfectly and also has the stamped edges around the outside of the coin as all bust half’s do... I tried comparing to other pictures of this coin and I did not see anything besides the weight of the coin. I feel like it would be impossible to get that low of weight even with significant wearing. I have worn down busts that would probably not Even grade but are still a lot closer then this guy/girl. Can anyone give me some insight or is this completely a fake and I need to start the refund process immediately??

Thank you in advance!

 

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I don’t like the surface porosity, and I also see what appear to be tiny casting bubbles

 

I do agree there is the black that’s on both sides of the coin. Everything else adds up to me but the weight. I do buy and sell and I don’t want to post something that will get a mark on my store or banned. I tried comparing it multiple other pictures of the same date and similar grades and can’t spot any issues with my limited trained eye.

 

It does feel weird at the touch as well, it could be some serious environmental damage probably as lordmarcovan stated?

 

I don't think this is a cast counterfeit. Davignon doesn't list a cast copy of the O-122 die marriage. (Doesn't mean one doesn't exist, however) I would say the weight discrepancy was from the environmental damage. You should be safe to go ahead and list it if you wish.

By the way, this is a square 2, small 8 variety--not the large 8.

Edit to add: Too bad that it is real. A contemporary counterfeit would actually be worth quite a bit MORE than this coin is worth!

 

I, too, am on the "real but damaged" side. Definitely corroded and probably dug. Lots of detail, but worth much less than the sharpness grade.

 

Looks like severe environmental damage then a major cleaning.

 

I would pass on that coin. Too many issues and just not appealing.

 

Maybe it's just my eyes, but the stars on the obverse seem a bit off. A few of them seem almost cartoonish and childish. Maybe the surface corrosion accounts for this, but there's just something funky about those stars in my humble opinion.

 

To me the coin looks good, but on a crappy planchet. But I too don't like the weight. If we get lucky, maybe we can get Jack Young to give his opinion. Jack is MISTER Counterfeit.

 

Thank you for the correction! Few more dollar isn’t all that bad! Thank you for the input also!

 

I usually start all bids at 1$ unless it’s a key date or coin with very high value so the bidders can decide where the journey takes them!

 

The OPs coin is 4.3% lighter than the standard weight as minted. According to pages 132-134 of @physics-fan3.14 book, his experiment with Lincoln wheat cents showed a 4% difference from UNC to well-worn. He also quotes a 1902 mint report that showed about a 5% difference in weight between redeemed coins for melting and new issues.

So, the OP's coin would be at least in the neighborhood of anticipated correct weight although I think it's a little light given that there isn't a lot of metal lost on this coin. Let's stipulate that the coin's weight is OK. So, if it is cast, it is less dense than a struck coin. The OP states that the dimensions are correct so I assume the OD was measured but what about the thickness? We would expect a cast coin with the right weight and OD to be a little thicker than a struck coin for the same weight.

OP states that ring test showed the coin to be struck. A cast coin is less dense so it has a different tone. So, this would indicate a struck coin, not a casting.

I am more concerned about the pitting. While it certainly has the appearance of environmental damage, it also has the appearance of too much entrained air in the melt mix. I do aluminum casting as part of my machinist hobby and I see this type of pattern fairly often when I haven't done everything right, sometimes even when I do. Also, if a casting, the pits and bubbles could result from failure to remove the air bubbles from the investment casting surface where they tend to cling due to surface tension (assuming a lost wax method) was used. I see some evidence that this might be the case around some details and I also see some lumps that could arise from this cause.

The edge ornaments are there but it would beneficial to see some tight photos of the entire rim to see if there is any indication of file marks where sprues were removed or other evidence.

I am also a bit concerned about the vertical stripe in the shield on the reverse. These have been melded and do not appear to be wear, soft strike or die wear. They appear to me to be more in the line of insufficient force to move the molten metal into the mold cavities. Also look at the feathers of the arrows.

My conclusion on the evidence to date is that this is probably a cast counterfeit. I am open to a change of view with more evidence.

 

I'm thinking counterfeit. The bottoms of the letters on the reverse are just too odd looking. The left side of the shield is too thin and the strips details looks cast. Then again, I could be wrong too.

 

As an avid metal detecter, I have found many silver coins (not quite this old) that look just like your coin from many many years underground. Silver will in fact corode away eventually but it depends a lot on soil composition and ph, plus the grade of silver. U.S. coins are 90% But were they or are they ALWAYS 90%? After close study of your pics I say it's real. Test it to know for sure.