Can you tell the difference of Proof coins struck more than Twice?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by iPen, Jan 17, 2020.

  1. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    I know that with proof coins, you have specially prepared dies, twice the strike (at least), specially prepared planchets, etc. Compared with business strikes, albeit with less special preparation and with a weaker press, you can definitely tell the difference between a circulation and proof strike. Maybe then an SMS and a proof strike would be a better comparison when trying to see the difference between 1 and 2 strikes. Even then many here may be able to tell the difference between an SMS and proof strike (without seeing the date of the coin of course).

    But that got me thinking... assuming that a given US proof coin (e.g. quarter) for a Mint set is struck only twice, then would a third strike make a noticeable difference on the coin? Would the marginal difference for each additional strike be noticeable? What about say, comparing 2 strikes with say 10 strikes - would there be any noticeable difference, and would it be "worth" it? I wouldn't even know what more to expect from multiple strikes after the first few or so... it's not like the reliefs would get any higher since the planchet is already molded into the incuse devices of the die, right? Would the mirrors be more... mirrored? lol I don't know maybe there are some differences you can tell from additional strikes if they're super high relief, or "super" enhanced proof designs that require "layering" via multiple strikes... but what about for your run of the mill proof coin from a Mint set?

    Thanks in advance!
     
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  3. vintagemintage

    vintagemintage Well-Known Member

    I'm guessing that beyond 2 strikes there would be a significantly diminished gain in quality from further striking, and an increased risk of problems... faster die wear, contamination on die surfaces adding flaws in mirrored fields, strike errors, etc.
     
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  4. desertgem

    desertgem MODERATOR Senior Errer Collecktor Moderator

    Many people if they only look at the faces ( reverse,obverse) they can't tell the difference between a proof and a business strike if it is a very early die stage business and a later die stage proof, only the edges can help with either a sharp right angle for the proof and a rounded edge for business. Some coin metals become work hardened after a first strike and successive strikes would not have a fully additive effect of increasing the depth ( and as you mentioned the incuse above). There are many threads on here of cases where people are confusing an early stage business strike as a proof because it seems sharper, etc. than the normal business strike. IMO, Jim
     
  5. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Derp, derp, derp!

    Good lord, you can't even begin to imagine how much MD would occur! lol
     
  6. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    I've seen Liberty nickels where even the rims don't help. The unfortunate thing there is that the MS coins are frequently worth more than the proofs, so you don't actually want the coin to come back as a proof.

    Here's a PCGS article about MS vs proof nickel coins of the 1870s-1880s: https://www.pcgs.com/news/difficult-to-grade-coins-part-eight
     
  7. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    I may be speaking out of turn, but seems I remember reading the reason the high relief 1921 Peace dollars were not practical because the high relief required multiple strikes and as a result the dies would deteriorate much too quickly to be practical..... I will say that an early strike proof shield nickel melts my butter. The sharp, defined lines in the shield look like they could carve a steak.... But in my opinion multiple strikes may indeed improve the appearance of a proof. You just wouldn't be able to afford them because the dies would have to be changed so frequently.
     
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  8. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    With the modern proofs, do they still strike them twice?
     
  9. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I'm inclined to agree. Though there are examples of older Proofs where it is said they were struck 4, even 5 times. And no, don't ask me to list which ones, I can remember that much but that's about it.

    I'm not sure, but I don't think regular Proof Sets are. But things like modern commems, bullion coins, special Proofs - I believe those are.
     
  10. Lawtoad

    Lawtoad Well-Known Member

  11. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    I really want to see a coin made by the US Mint to "test" a coin with 10 strikes, and something absurd like 100 strikes. This assumes all else constant (e.g. no MD, same preparations as proof coins, same press, etc.).
     
  12. vintagemintage

    vintagemintage Well-Known Member

    Brings to mind the idiom "beating a dead horse"
     
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  13. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    Not any. Struck on slow medal presses, so coins aren't popped out of the collar like business strikes.
     
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  14. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Please, No!!
     
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  15. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Perhaps the better or more practical question is, what coin is/was intentionally struck the most - is there an example that's known to have several strikes?

    Not error coins, that is, like this 1918 Wheat cent that was struck 9 times (!)...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
  16. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Oh I know that's what they say, and yeah, they always used to be struck at least twice. But given the quality of regular Proofs over the last 10 or so years, I'm just not certain that I believe them anymore. Could easy be wrong though.
     
  17. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes? Supporter

    The High Relief 1907 St. Gaudens were intentionally struck 5 times to bring up all the detail. The proof examples were struck 9 times: https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/saint-gaudens-20-1907-1933-pscid-70-desig-ms
     
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  18. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Yeah it's hard to tell if there's any sort of difference in quality. Maybe because this is a high relief example and it required it so comparing it to say a single strike St. Gaudens would make it obvious (probably something the Mint workers may have seen in person).
     
  19. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    I agree with you Jim. Cuz. I got a full case of quam quarters and the W minted quarters edges and faces were so sharp (only 2 million minted at west point) you could almost cut yourself on the edges. If you were a quarter rim searcher you could of spotted the W's plain as day. I hit the jackpot. These W Guams were the near perfect. Flawless i think.
     
  20. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    Wow. I'm bad at GTG also. And i really try
     
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