Can you tell a real Rockwell Test?

The C test is done the same way on dies as with planchents (15T test), but with a different indenter and different pressures.

 

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I love it when you talk dirty!

.....I'll have to read that again, slowly!

Thanks for the info - no one at the West Point Mint
ever said the RT was done on dies.....my apology.

 

The key question should be if rockwell testing is done to dies, what step in the die making process is the testing done. Where on the die is the test carried out? OPs coin appears to just have a small die chip. Just normal wear and tear to a die, thats all.

 

Perhaps the question never arose! I appreciate your raising the question here. It made me realize that I did not know the answer and needed to find out!

 

Although I was wrong about RT'ing not being done on dies,
in over 5 decades of learning about the Minting Process
(which is never-ending, as the process changes), I've still
not ever heard of, or seen, any US coin that shows the signs
of a RT'ed Die. Not by any researcher or author, or anyone,
who would have lots more knowledge about it.

 

I did show one in the paper I wrote. I make the point that you have emphasized that it is just not possible to say for sure but it is possible to say a certain feature is likely a Rockwell Test. It is much easier to say certain marks are NOT test marks.

By the way, I also say in the paper (I tried to say it subtly in order to be sensitive) that a Test Mark certified by John Devine could not be one.

My paper is here:
https://conecaonline.org/rockwell-hardness-test-marks-on-lincoln-cents/

Since I am a total amateur, I bow to the professionals among us such as yourself!

 

Thanks for the link - very very interesting,
although I don't believe that those cents
exhibit RT marks on them.

 

After they do the test, wouldn't they repair the die before using it?

 

I would be interested in hearing why you have reached this conclusion?

I gather you disagree with some of my criteria for identifying RT?

 

No, it's not that I disagree with what
you wrote, I just don't think those are
RT pieces pictured - of course I could be wrong.

If I didn't believe RT's were done on dies,
how would I know what one RT mark would
look like, or not look like, on a coin, you're
going to ask - a very valid question.

Again, I could be wrong, but my instinct says,
(to me at least) that that's not what they are.

Again, I'll willing to concede that I'm incorrect,
but I'd certainly want to have others (who are
not on CT) view them also.

 

Fred Weinberg - thank you. I am very much aware that this is a hard sell. I also am aware of the impossibility of making a definitive attribution. The most I can ask for is "Likely" and on that score, I would challenge you to take a step beyond instinct and examine the facts presented! I do appreciate the dialogue and discussion!

 

Pete, I've enjoyed the discussion too - and I've
learned from your article, and posts here.

I'm sorry, but I can't use the term 'Likely' on those
cent photos.

Question: if those cents are RT coins, how come they are
so rare? Wouldn't every coin struck from those RT dies
show the circular indentations? In theory, like die cracks,
and other re-occurring die errors, there should be many,
many hundreds, if not many thousands, of examples found
in BU rolls and Bags. They are not - they're only found in circulation.
(as far as I know)

If they spotted the first few coins struck from those Dies, so that
there are only a few from each RT Die, why didn't they spot that
specific die, with the RT mark in open field, and pull it? It should
stick out like a sore thumb if a new die had an easily seen indentation
on it, in the open fields, before it was placed in the die set up operation.
Just a thought....

(Also, I'm leaving my office in about 10 minutes, so I might not reply
again till early tomorrow morning)

 

Because those do not represent tests on the die - they are a test on the planchet - so they are not repeated. Were they on the die, they would be raised and a different configuration.

 

Alright after reading this, I already know it’s not the 1959. There is no other reason that the mint would want to sustain having to accept that retained image coming along. But I will post my 2/3 1963 Lincoln Cent with the inner ear Modified Hub Doubled Die. (TIN 1962) Which after 1961 was higher and rounded on the inner ear, a perfect use of deign reprisal and accepting the Rockwell Test implication.

 

I know that - but I thought you said that RT's were also done on dies.
I was just trying to discuss the distribution of them.

Are you saying they're done on already struck coins?

It sounds like we're talking about a Unicorn - everyone knows what
they look like, but no one has ever seen one.

gotta go - see you all in the a.m.

 

The primary thrust of my paper is Rockwell Test Marks on planchets.

 

Interesting that you were viewing the thread about clashes where @MommaHenn made a joke about Rockwell tests at 2pm on Monday and then all of a sudden not two days later you found one! What a crazzzzzzy coincidence.

 

Here is the answer to your question quoted from the Mint. If I understand this correctly, then there will never be a Rockwell Die Test showing on a coin.

"The Rockwell-C hardness inspection is performed after the heat treatment process (after the dies come of [sic] out of the furnace and cool). A sample of the dies are tested on their neck. Also “slugs” (dummy dies) are included with each batch of dies in the furnace and they are cross-sectioned to test for through-hardness."

coloradobryan - GREAT QUESTION! Thank you for asking!

 

Thanks for that quote, Pete -

For newer members here, the 'neck' referred to is the
area below the die face, usually where the die base
thins out at the top, and the neck area is the same
diameter as the die face. (the base of the die is wider in most cases)

So, aside from knowing that RT's are done on planchets
(which I've witnessed), we apparently now know that
Dies also may get the RT (which I didn't know), but that
the test mark is on the Side of the die, not on the die face itself.

 

Here are some helpful images (courtesy Ken Potter) to visualize what a die looks like.