Can you define improper storage ?

It's all any of us have to go on, Paul. We are creatures of what we have seen and experienced. You asked for photos and I provided them. There is one PCGS Morgan I have that had a blast white obverse that STILL IS, and a very subtle yellow reverse that has gone to full-out orange, but you're not going to be moved by anything I have to say or show - we've established that. You're too "invested" in a rigid ideology.

 

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So all of your slabbed coins (ANACS & NGC) turned but your raw coins remained untoned. It makes absolutely no sense. Did you have them stored in different places? Was there ever a time when you had you slabbed coins stored in a high temperature/humidity environment?

 

No, they have always been in the exact same conditions within mere feet (less than 5) of each other. I agree it's puzzling. That's why I argue it as assiduously as I do. I'd like to understand it as well.

 

Seems to me you should be angry at the toning process in general, not the subset of rainbow toned coins.

 

Now I'm going to relate a story that provides a useful fact pattern. One of my closest numismatic friends is Carl Waltz, Jr. of Millersville, PA, either the first, second or third top expert on Matte Proof Lincolns, depending on whom you ask.

He insists, and I believe him, because I've read the same from other authors, that there IS NO SUCH THING as a legit RD or RB Matte Proof Lincoln; all are fully BN or they have been messed with, period. All the top experts on MPL's agree on this.

Now, that's 1909 to what, 1915? Okay. Now, consider that there are, not many of course, but there ARE large cents with red on them. I saw (and bid on) an 1853 half cent that still had some original red on it last week at Ephrata, PA. It went for 3.5x full retail for a MS63BN, too rich for my blood. We see them all the time in Heritage and S/B sales, large cents and half cents with considerable red.

Now, why should MPL's from 1915 be impossible to be red, and large cents from 1840 NOT BE IMPOSSIBLE, unless what toned those MPL's was irreversible and unarrestable? SURELY, someone separated their MPL's from the offending tissue early on, it only stands to reason. But NONE in red exist?????

I have to infer that the sulfur that causes the MPL's to ALL tone brown to be an unarrestable chemical reaction EVEN AFTER separation from the container tissue paper. What am I missing? If sulfur is an unarrestable toning agent, it is. If it IS arrestable, then why are there absolutely no legit MPL's with any red on them?

Did someone stand over each and every original MPL owner and force them to keep the tissue paper on them until they all went brown?

 

I'm sorry, I am. I thought that was clear to all. I have no use for ANY toning. I buy every exotic product that purports to rein in toning, including those copper empregnated plastic bags that the Chinese snap up by the millions. I am told you can't sell a toned coin in Asia, I don't personally know, nor do I ever plan to know.

It's probably the only attitude I share with modal Asians. I am not interested in looking at toning as a good thing at all, ever.

 

I agree with this utterly, but it is true nonetheless. I REALLY do not enjoy not knowing why this is happening. Admittedly, the PCGS slabs with toned coins inside are MUCH more stable than ANYONE else's, but still not perfect. Maybe I need to cut down on some greens like brussel sprouts? Less corn? I drink almost no alcohol (killt enuff brane sells wun nite in Joon 2009), so we can't blame the beer.

But my bad experiences in toning might actually drive me to drink.

 

On this picture, if you look at the subtle yellow at Ben's temple, that was what was at the edges when I bought this coin, in the mid 1990's.

 

Debate Club President? Get outta town!
(Sorry for disrupting the thread, but I just, you know, had to...I shall return to lurk mode now)

 

Not just President, County AND State Champions, thank you very much. I am the ONLY one of our top 8 debaters who is NOT an attorney today. It doesn't stop me from arguing cases pro se. Even before the State Supreme Court (redistricting - incorrect application by the Commission of the Voting Rights Act of 1964 by creating a "majority minority" district where court precedent determined it was not proper to do so).

My debate partner is now one of the nastiest lawyers in D.C. for the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai Brith.

 

Kurt , are you getting any sleep at all, it seems like you have posted several hundred times in the last couple of says. Rest makes your upcoming recovery easier after "doctor's sleepy time medicine".

 

Thanks, good point. But we never got that far. The snowstorm intervened. Regardless, I'm not yet on EST and I need to take a good crack at that. Night, Jim. Night, all.

The EARLIEST possible new date they offered me was late February. That's the way medicine rolls in PA. Mass production and overbooking.

 

FWIW, you still do it pretty well, despite the occasional ad hominem (done mostly for comic relief, I suspect). Debating on the interwebs is a sketchy proposition at best but I enjoy your posts even though I may not always share your opinion.

Back on topic, I bury all my coins in a hemp sack, especially when faced with advancing hordes of Germanic tribes intent upon engaging the Roman imperialists, thus endangering my collection and overall lifestyle in general. I figure my system will preserve my coins for about a millennia, give or take a year or two...
(that's a joke, I use Dansco and Intercept Shield albums and plastic 2x2's, mostly)

 

Lake, I am a legislative staffer, not a member. I am NOT proscribed from questioning or casting aspersions on others’ motivations, unlike the proscription on that in floor debate. Actually, I’m kind of paid TO paint the opposition in the least flattering light possible, and it doesn’t matter whether that target is on our side of the aisle or the other one. My boss, Mr. 22 terms, is a committed maverick who is a nasty street fighter and likes others around him. He just won 81% to 19%. Nasty works. Reading, PA is a nasty hardscrabble town where wimps get crushed, and electoral politics is NOT a contact sport; it’s a BLOOD sport. And yes, voter fraud DOES exist. I’ve seen it happen personally. In fact, I was fired as Director of Elections FOR pointing out how it was being done. That’s the kind of place it is.