Can you define improper storage ?

You are right, I agree with nearly everything in this post. While demand for toned coins and the premiums based on their rarity spawned the AT coin doctors, the TPGs do an excellent job at insulating toned coin collectors from AT coins.

That said, just like with numerical grading, each collector must define market acceptability for themselves. While the TPG certification may provide liquidity by calling a toned coin MA, that doesn’t mean the collector shouldn’t pass on a coin that they think is AT/QT even if it resides in a problem free NT/MA holder. It’s no different than passing on a coin that you think is overgraded.

 

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Yes, yes, yes. We need to focus on THIS line to find common ground. My line is NONE. I won't pay for any color attributes even a single cent more. Not MORE color, and not LESS color. None is acceptable, and no color status is worth any premium to me. I'd just as soon assess silver coins in black & white with the color turned off.

 

I actually think this is a mistake for you Kurt. As we’ve discussed, blast white coins are dipped. In my experience, they are even more reactive than coins with original skins and quickly develop the quintessential secondary of blue/brown toning like has formed on your 1955 quarter.

You might be better off buying coins with monochromatic toning. They can be purchased without a premium, and the toning layer actually forms a protective barrier that inhibits further toning as long as it is stored in an inert atmosphere. If you put the coins in Dansco albums they are in direct contact with a toning source. But flips and clear hard plastic holders like Cointains should stop any advancement of the toning which would only occur as a result of interaction with Hydrogen Sulfide gas in the atmosphere.

Medoroman has made reference to the fact that dipped coins are more reactive than toned coins, and that the toning layer actually serves as a protective barrier to further toning, and his views on toning are similar to your own.

 

It seems to me that the jury's still out on "toning forms a protective barrier". If that were the case, I wouldn't expect to see so much rainbow toning -- the parts of the coin that start to turn would be protected (and stop turning), and the parts that hadn't yet started, still unprotected, would catch up.

I have assumed that a silver sulfide layer doesn't passivate much at all, but I don't have the materials-science chops to back that assumption.

 

Sorry, Paul, this is AT LEAST an inadvertent overstatement on your part. I own three original 1955 proof sets; one boxed, one flat with all original packaging, and one flat without OGP. All nine silver coins contained in those three sets are full white and have never been messed with, the boxed set MAY have a very subtle blush.

 

Herewith, MY yearbook picture, Reading High School, 1973:


Right now, the hair on my chinny, chin, chin be coverin' that tie knot.

 

Rainbow toned coins form when the coin comes in direct contact with a sulfur laden toning source. For example, bag toning on Morgans, or album toning on 20th Century coinage. Once you remove the coin from its toning source, the existing toning provides a barrier to inhibit further toning from hydrogen sulfide gas in the atmosphere.

The only proof I have is that none of my toned coins have ever developed more toning. And I do have a degree in Materials Science Enigineering but I only worked in the enigineering for a year, so my recollection of thermodynamics, diffusion, and principled or corrosion is a little hazy!

 

I think this just provides more proof that the inserts on those ANACS slabs are your problem.

 

Ain't that always the way it goes? I'm getting to the age where I just now can't instantly recall all of my stuff I learned at will, and it sucks. It makes note-keeping a must. Actually, on reflection, that process got its start during my stroke recovery. Recovery wasn't QUITE 100%, and I created new skills DURING recovery, like improved left hand dexterity. I used to say I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. It almost happened.

 

Seems whatever is in there that did that also provided secondary contamination for my contemporary NGC and PCGS slabs. They have the same problem with a greatly reduced magnitude. But they ALL ARE chemically active to this day.

 

Can we get some photos of those coins?

 

Searching. Some have not been out since I packed for my move 13 months ago. The few PCGS SHOULD BE in a blue PCGS box. The NGC are in miscellaneous boxes.

 

Here's one I didn't expect! This is the 1964 Kennedy I sent in two years ago that came back MS65 despite its hits. Its original pic is preserved on NGC's site.



To my memory's eye, these colors have progressed. Let's all check together. Its number is 4337715-001. If you need to enter a grade, it's MS65.

I just checked it and the database is offline, so are all my submission invoices. Maybe some IT stuff at work.

BTW, this is the biggest field size I can handle right now.

In the hand, swirled, this is actually much prettier than I remember it being. Far more pinks in there now.

Here's what gets me: Why would ANYONE prefer this monstrosity over any one of the literally millions of "middle of the solid BU roll" fully white examples out there? This. Is. Damage. Period.

 

Here is an NGC 1962 Franklin that "lived" with the ANACS slabs for many years. It had the most subtle of yellow toning, and has changed to this:

 

Their database is down right now, but the NGC pictures are really worthless when it comes to judging color or color changes. They don't shoot them to have an accurate representation or really anything other than a basic map to match the coin. * toners can look like they have no color or are black in their basic quick photos.

 

The pinks you see at the top of JFK's head now are included in all the dark areas when swirled under an incandescent bulb. That's new. It was all yucky yellow-green before. It is really rather nice now, but I know I can't keep it that way.

 

Here are two first year nickels with monochrome yellow toning that "lived" with the ANACS slabs. These are darkening noticeably over the years. Still yellowy, but really darkening down.





The Buff is an MS65 with number 267328-008 and the Jeff is an MS67 with number 503533-012. This Jeff used to be LIGHTER than the one in my Dansco, but is now FAR darker. Both are NGC "fatties".

 

Want to know what my experience proves is more preservative than ANYTHING??? Not slabs, not albums, not flips, not even Kointains, although they are good. Nope, my experience shows that the most preservative thing I've used is Capital Plastics old-school stuff, with the screws.

 

So to review - the ONLY type of coin that I believe is stabilized by a thin film of toning are those Morgans of unique history and chemistry. Anything else is damage that is progressive unless extraordinary means and a not unsubstantial measure of sheer luck combine to help the arresting of the progress of the cancer into stasis that makes the coin temporarily pretty.

 

Keywords of that paragraph “I believe”