Can you define improper storage ?

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Two thoughts, Doug:
1) Wow, people gripe at ME for TL,DR posts!

2) I can’t find a quarrel with any of this. The lack of TPGS consistency IS the real 800lb. gorilla in the toning room.

3) Sorry, third thought. Lack of grader and finalizer ID and transparency is the next scandal.

 

I am working on getting some snaps of changed coins in slabs from my collection. The more I look at them, the more I realize ALL of them came from Teletrade purchases, in the 1990’s. Some dimes were blast white when I got them and are now DEEPLY toned in a VERY unattractive manner. Same deal with one Franklin half. I literally don’t own a single coin that has ever been stable regarding toning, except for recent blast white that still is, for now.

As of now, I’ve pulled 8 coins, all with unattractive toning now, all blast white when I bought them, all in small ANACS plastic.

 

Question: if your blast white coins are the ones that are turning, why do you constantly warn people off toned coins?

Seems to me that the dipped blast white coins in your collection are more reactive than toned coins with original skins that actually serve to protect the coin from additional toning.

 

Here is the most egregious example. First the label:


Now the coin:



Yes, that is blue toning at 7-8 o'clock in the field, and Mississippi Mud all over the rest of the coin. Who wants this mess for Proof 67 Cameo money today? Pffft!

 

Here's my quarter:



This coin has quite literally changed EVERY YEAR I have had it, from no toning whatsoever, to this hot mess:

It's not so easy to see in the fields, but check the legends, date and top and bottom of the bust. Ridiculous nearly terminal toning.

 

A Morgan I bought with an attractive slight yellow tone is now black at the edges. I can't zoom back far enough to frame a crown sized coin. Even these required my 0.5x Barlow lens.

Here's the bottom line: I no longer trust ANY coin to not turn if it's in TPGS plastic. I'd rather take my chances raw. The absolute garbage found in dealers' "cheap slabs" boxes only confirms how unreliable slabs are for preservation of toned coins.

 

That’s the most ludicrous claim you have ever made. Once a coin is graded, it is market acceptable, and you could sell it in any auction venue you wanted. There was absolutely nothing nefarious about Teletrade or their consignors.

I searched every Teletrade auction for years and bought many toned coins from them. Note the word “searched” because most of the coins in the auction were untoned. To insinuate that the offerings in Teletrade auctions were AT creations is INSANE!

 

Sorry, they VERY much WERE AT by the thousands. I myself returned several because I felt they were. It now seems I should have rejected more than I did.

I guess I'm happy for you that you haven't had the miserable experiences with toning that I have, but I've had nothing but heartache, and I refuse to repeat it.

 

You are not making any sense at all. For the entirety of this thread (and a few others) you have been talking about the evils of toning and making the assertion that coins don’t tone like that and that they are the product of coin doctors.

Come to find out that you can’t even protect your own coins from toning despite your militant efforts to do so.

So which is it? Dramatic toning doesn’t form naturally and is the product of coin doctors, or you just don’t like toning and are frustrated that you can’t stop it?

 

I promise you that my experience with toned coins dwarfs yours. I’ve purchased more toned coins from Teletrade, Heritage, E-Bay etc. The coins from Teletrade were no different than those from the other auction venues, the were simply market acceptable toned coins.

You and Doug need to stop making the false claim that Teletrade was a haven of AT coins. You both sound like complete wackos spewing propaganda.

 

The answer is so simple I'm amazed it evades you - my thesis is that ATTRACTIVE toning is mostly (stable rainbow Morgans SPECIFICALLY in their own category) an incredibly thin snapshot in time and are unsustainable over anything resembling the long term. That nickel above was AMAZING-looking for a year or two.

 

And you sound like an ideologue desperately clawing to preserve the inherent dishonesty of your chosen niche. I have contemporary coins to those shown above that have been in Saflips and albums, and they HAVE NOT TURNED, despite being in the same room and atmosphere with those slabs. I have proven to my own satisfaction that slabs are THE NATURAL ENEMY of preserving my coins that I want to keep stabilized. Slabs are trapping some nasty stuff in there.

 

I would agree sir. In my "perfect world", coins would simply be left alone and valued based upon amount of luster remaining, whether lightly toned or darker. Collectors who demand blast white color drive dealers to dip, and collectors who only pay for vivid colors drive dealers to "force" toning. Of course a freshly dipped surface is much more susceptible to reacting to the environment than one with a light tone from age. Toning really is a way for the metal to protect itself from further damage. Like I said, pick your poison, blast white coins WERE dipped, toned ones MAY be original. Just don't be naïve and assume a toned coin is original, or a blast white coin cannot still be collectible. Some coins HAD to be dipped to save it from possible terminal toning.

At the base, I believe there is more agreement from advanced collectors than our discussions here would lead others to believe....

 

There is no “inherent dishonesty” in the toning market, you are just sour about your personal experience.

Are you aware that the old white ANACS slabs are not completely inert? Perhaps you should have crossed those dipped proofs into PCGS or NGC slabs to protect them.

 

Possibly. What Lehigh would call NT I suspect is more stable. It would be possible to maintain them, but care would need to be exerted. You notice he mentions he uses intercepts. Very smart for someone who wishes to maintain a specific toning condition in perpetuity, though you may be right it cannot, with the best efforts, last forever. I simply do not know, because in the past we did not have the tools we have today to try to completely arrest toning at a specific stage.

 

No sh... (umm, fooling), Sherlock! Ya' think? So who can I go see about that? By the way, it happens in old NGC and PCGS too, just not as badly and/or quickly. ANACS white is a special case of perpetrator, yes. If you owned my nickel above, graded PF67CAM, and for which you PAID such money, what would YOU do with it? I'm thinking of cracking it and experimenting with it. I think I hear it screaming for a Kodak SR-10 bath.