Can you define improper storage ?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by GDJMSP, Nov 16, 2018.


    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Again, current discussions are the reason for asking this question. It has been stated in other current threads that improper storage is a valid reason for designating toned coins as being artificially toned, or if you prefer, having questionable toning.

    But that begs a question doesn't it ? For how does one define improper storage ? Personally, I have a rather simple and straightforward definition for it. Improper storage is defined as any storage method that is conducive to toning.

    However, the idea has been out forth that this kind of improper storage is OK and will result in NT or market acceptable toning, but that kind of improper storage is not OK and will result in AT/QT or not market acceptable toning.

    Now I don't know about anybody else but that seems downright arbitrary to me. More than arbitrary I'd say, I find it completely and totally illogical and contradictory.

    I mean, the toning is deemed OK if the coins were put in an album, coin envelopes, cardboard coin holders of any kind, wrapped in tissue paper, paper coin rolls, etc etc, and then stored in a temperature controlled environment with low humidity. But if the very same coins were stored in any of the very same things, but stored in an environment that was not temperature controlled and had high humidity - those coins are deemed not OK.

    Is there anybody here who thinks that even remotely makes any sense ? Or saying that it is a valid reason for designating the toning on the coins as being AT, QT, or not market acceptable ? Especially since there is absolutely no way that anybody would or could ever know under which conditions those coins were stored ?

    And let's not forget to put intent into the equation. Does it matter if an individual in any of the scenarios described above, used those storage methods with or without the intent of making the coins tone ? And bear in mind, in ALL of the scenarios the coins did indeed tone ! And in all of the scenarios the coins did tone specifically because of the storage method the individual chose to use. The only difference is one happened faster than the other due to increased and variable temperature and humidity.

    So, can you define improper storage ?
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  3. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    How I store just about all of my coins :(
    CoinCorgi likes this.
  4. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    I'm going to modify this. See if you like it:

    Improper storage is defined as any storage method that allows your coin to deteriorate further from its condition when placed in storage.
  5. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Derp, derp, derp!

    No such storage exists that can prevent that.

    oh, and this...

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I agree with Corgi. Good god did I just say that out loud ? :D

    Joking aside, while I understand your point Mike, that's why I phrased my definition the way I did. Toning cannot be stopped, the best you can do is to slow it down. Thus improper storage is best defined as any method that is conducive to toning.

    Do anything and everything you can to slow down toning as much as possible, and that is the definition of proper storage.

    Fair enough, but when I used the phrase is was done with the intention that it means - raises the question.
    Oldhoopster and CoinCorgi like this.
  7. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Absolutes can usually bite you - :arghh: Ouch! I'll let others come up with the two I'm thinking of + other methods. :wideyed:
    Kentucky likes this.
  8. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Toning is not the only way a coin deteriorates but let's stick to that. Hint: What is necessary to oxidize a coin's surface...:smuggrin:
    Seattlite86 likes this.
  9. Dave Waterstraat

    Dave Waterstraat dave700x -1883 O nut

    I vote you give him a like for that post then...:woot:
    tommyc03, Oldhoopster and CoinCorgi like this.
  10. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Derp, derp, derp!

    Don't push it!
    Kirkuleez and Dave Waterstraat like this.
  11. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    You're getting arbitrary answers because you're not asking the right questions. There is no proper or improper storage. There is only storage. Coins will deteriorate in any environment; it's just a question as to what kind of deterioration and how quickly it happens.

    Look back 100 years, 50 years even. What was thought of as proper storage then would generally be thought of as improper storage now. So it will likely be 50 years from now until coins are suspended in forcefields in a vacuum.

    Also AT is not a real thing either, therefore discussions debating AT will not produce usable answers. There is only toning. It can be market acceptable or not.
    Ike Skywalker and CoinCorgi like this.
  12. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Derp, derp, derp!

    +1000. Any future comment I make on these 2 subjects will just be to quote this. Or perhaps random snark.
    Jaelus likes this.
  13. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Before you start quoting Jaelus :rolleyes:, please answer my question as I believe there are ways to store metal so it does not deteriorate.
  14. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Derp, derp, derp!

    Gotcha. Oxygen.
  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

  16. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Welp, there goes another perfectly good Silicon Valley angel investor funded startup idea shot to heck.
    Seattlite86 likes this.
  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Am I ? I'm asking the questions I'm asking to prove a point. Namely that any way you look at it all anyone can do is guess when it comes whether toning is AT or NT. Or QT or acceptable or not acceptable or whatever label you care slap on it !
  18. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    What can keep air, oxygen, and anything else that will contaminate it away from its surface? Now, if you think about it, I guess there may be a way to keep a coin from toning after all.
  19. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Derp, derp, derp!

    Yeah yeah but is it practical? Quit beating around the bush and say what it is that you are thinking of.
  20. CoinBlazer

    CoinBlazer Professional Teenager

    My own definition of improper coin storage

    Improper Storage-method(s) of storing or maintaining a coin that can be proved as detrimental or damaging to the coins patina, design, wear and other aspects of quality.

    provided by CoinBlazer Standard English Dictionary Edition 16
  21. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I don't think I'll venture onto this playing field. Too much danger of getting run down by a speeding goalpost.
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