Featured Can you define artificial toning ?

Well I went back to the ANA standards and that makes me think it might be a higher 63.

"A coin graded MS-63 has mint luster that may be slightly impaired. Numerous small contact marks and a few scattered heavy marks may be seen.

Small hairlines may be visible without magnification. Several detracting scuff marks or defects may be present throughout the design or in the fields."

At MS64 the ANA standard reads "Several small contact marks in groups, as well as one or two moderately heavy marks may be present." I think this one is a little beyond this, but my opinion.

The PCGS standards are slightly different, but roughly the same. I never dip coins, period. It is what it is.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I don’t see anything inconsistent with MS-64

 

My thought was that there were a few too many marks on the cheek to hold the MS64 and I probably would have pegged it at 63.

 

A nice addition to my collection even though not a high grade. This is a VAM 74 - Doubled 18.

 

Fascinating discussion again gentleman. I was only able to get through page 5 before I had to skip to page 22.

I was surprised nobody asked Doug to show us the before coin, AT tone it to "market acceptable" appearance in 24 hrs, THEN ship it to NGC or PCGS and see if it gets a clean grade? That's the true test. Not a photo of a loose coin with ensuing cointalk opinions... Send a handful in. Somebody will be proven wrong....

I am not strictly a toned coin collector but have several. I do enjoy them more than your average blast white example as it adds character and individuality to what would otherwise look all the same (if blast white). I don't always seek toners but I keep an eye out for them.
There's enough, quality toned material out there to where I think it's foolish to consciously avoid all of it. A relatively large percentage of Morgans are toned. They've been toned going back to when people didn't want toning. Toning is fairly rare in most other series' and if there is a toned example it tends to not be very dramatic. With few exceptions. Knowing this info alone should be enough to guide most toning purchase decisions.
Are the TPGs tough enough? I guess we wouldn't know until somebody works their magic here and sends in a batch that comes back in all clean grades. If they accept it, it becomes market acceptable.

 

For a 61, that's a really pretty coin.

 

I agree it's undergraded. 61's are much uglier than that.

 

Well I dropped the color out and it is a pretty clean coin.

There is a bit of a whammo over the eyebrow, but I have seen worse graded higher

 

Actually it is the depth of luster loss on the cheek. The cheek should be as lustrous as the eyebrow to temple area. They don't look the same. There is a fine line in the surface conditions, when determining an AU coin and an MS example. In order for this coin to achieve an AU would be determined on the amount of surface scratches the coin received from the Mint to possession.
As Kurt said take away the toning and what do you have?

As for me, surface preservation is the key. I will buy it before any tone a coin has.

 

There is a lot of interpretation here and I was only trying to drop the color out to get to a greyscale image. I would not interpret luster from this image since preservation through the process was not an objective and probably isn't even possible. I was looking for bag damage that might be obscured.

The area through the cheek, and a few other spots, seem to have the bag material impression in the color and I think that aligns with the color. Toned coins certainly are not for everyone but there are examples that I like much like a piece of art.

 

I'll need to read this from where I left off but IMO, the 81-O was graded MS-61 because it is actually an AU. That's what 61 and 62 often signify today. That gray patch over the ear is friction that has removed the original surface.

It is a pretty nice coin that looks under graded. I'd price it as at least 63 money as it looks original.

 

This is one I am adding to the collection today.


I like the color and on examination I think this one should be in the upper end of the grade. This is a VAM 53 which is the most common VAM in this series. However, this coin is missing a die crack that always runs through the mint mark which would indicate that this is an early die state coin.

I also believe the color sequence is correct for a bag toned coin.