Featured Can you define artificial toning ?

All of that is just about as irrelevant as anything could ever be. What percentage of 1881-S dollars have ever BEEN to a TPGS, a prerequisite for being in a modern Heritage catalog? Way fewer than most people realize.

I own about 5-6 really nice ones that never have been submitted, and I've declined to bid on about 25 more, just this past year. 1881-S DEFINES "common", even in high grades.

 

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Lehigh96 I was mocking you. JFTR.

 

Don’t they require you to take a statistics class as an economist? And it works in your favor, certainly almost every rainbow toned gem Morgan has been submitted for grading at this point. All the blast white raw ones that you are talking about would do is dilute the percentage even further.

It’s your turn to show some evidence that the supply of toners has exploded.

 

It’s hard to tell sometimes.

 

Here's why Heritage is irrelevant. The number of collectors who at least dabble in toners is MANY MANY times the number of collectors who will EVER buy, sell, or even bid on a Heritage coin. Many probably can't SPELL Heritage.

 

You believe this. I do not. Grading is just now lately catching on in our mid-state. The CLEAR majority of members of Red Rose Coin Club, the state's MOST active (not PAN, sorry) club, collect raw coins exclusively.

Our banquet chairman is a Bust Half Nut club member who has over 300 Overton numbered examples. NONE are in TPGS plastic, not a single one. It's a local preference with "legs". Our fairly recent Farran Zerbe Award winner, the late John Eshbach, never owned a slabbed coin, but had a full set of Stellas. They only first saw plastic when he sold. There are numerous important midstate collections with the same story. It's why Steinmetz and CNG were and are here. It's a local pattern.

Life "without middle men" is a core part of our ethos. As near as I can glean, it descends from a lesson on Jesus at the Temple and "the money changers". The majority of even HOMES are sold at auction and NOT by realtors. It's different, but I've come to admire its internal ethical code.

Our people like direct dealing in commerce without intermediaries.

 

Excellent points and I think well stated. It seems to me that toned coins have been of interest for decades, but our easier access to information makes it seem that they have suddenly "caught on" with collectors. I see little evidence of sagging interest or prices. Toned coins are not for everyone, but neither are a lot of other varieties.

 

I really don't care who "dabbles" in toned coins. The real toned coins are sold in Heritage Auctions. They are the biggest numismatic auctioneer in the country and they get the monster toners in their consignments. The stuff you see on E-Bay is most low grade over hyped garbage.

I find it funny that the guy who abhors toned coins continues to lecture me about the intricacies of the toned coin market even though you have never bought or sold rainbow toned coins.

I've shown you hard evidence that the percentage of rainbow toned 1881-S MS65 Morgan Dollars has been basically constant for the last two decades and you claim that my source, which is the largest coin auctioneer in the country, is unsatisfactory. Rather than address my points in a logical manner, you just post more conjecture.

 

Blah, blah, blah.

Hickville, PA is not representative of the coin world. The last time I purchased a raw coin from a major coin auction was 2001 I believe.

1916-D Barber Quarter MS64 $184.00 2001 November Santa Clara Signature Sale #275

Guess what, it isn't raw anymore!

 

Perhaps by dollars, definitely NOT by units sold.

 

It IS representative of the ONLY "coin world" I am likely to EVER need or care about during my remaining years. I can and often have spent 5 straight days at an ANA convention and the only reason I was on the bourse floor is to get from one spot to another OFF the bourse floor.

 

My peops and I have taken the alternative path - we learned to grade for ourselves and we barely ever sell ANY coin at all, so who needs slabs? But I understand you buyin' n' sellin' wheeler dealer types have your own needs. Goodie goodie for you. Not my world at all.

By the way, Red Rose CC (Lancaster, PA) meets twice per month and USUALLY (storms excepted) has an actual ATTENDANCE (not members on the books) of just shy of 100 members, or about 3x that of the Chicago Coin Club, of which I am also a member. Lancaster has one of the highest percentages of disposable income in the land, statistically. Good salaries, low cost of living. The 2015 Ladies' U.S. (Golf) Open had its BEST ATTENDANCE AND GATE RECEIPTS EVER, ANYWHERE, and they're coming back. Lancaster, "Hicksville". Better than Pebble Beach. Hmm.

You can deride "Hicksville" all you want. I'll put the numismatists there/here up against ANY ANYWHERE. The 2018 President has been Kerry Wetterstrom. Yep, THAT Kerry Wetterstrom - CNG numismatist, former publisher of The Celator? Yeah, that guy.

CNG has two offices on their catalogs - London, England and li'l ol' Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA. Not a random thing, that.

 

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Since its inception in 1974, Steinmetz Coins & Currency has become one of the nation's leading numismatic companies with sales exceeding $200 million. Steinmetz Coins & Currency specializes in servicing client portfolios by providing numismatic expertise and assistance with market timing. In 2006 Steinmetz Coins & Currency founded our York location to concentrate on ensuring the best possible experience for our retail customers. In both locations the company purchases and sells rare numismatic pieces. Hopefully you will find this website easy to use and the focus of all your coin needs.. Confidence in buying and selling coins, currency and precious metals is essential and predictable with Steinmetz Coins & Currency. Own a piece of history and invest in commodities of outstanding value."

Lancaster and York, PA - "Hicksville".

 

You see, Lehigh, I saw your posts on NGC's message board, looking for confirmation that what Doug has said here was faulty. I also saw the near-unanimous opinion that Doug was right about what he said regarding Teletrade and their dreck toners, "especially toward the end of Teletrade". When you are the one outside the mainstream, Lehigh, I agree it's good to check elsewhere. You be da' Mac Daddy of toner promotion, if that's what you're angling for. QED.

 

Agreed. Pure units is definitely eBay. Heritage is the leader for dollar amount, and a dollar per coin ratio I believe Legend has the lead there though that could also be Heritage as some of those million dollar coins really up that ratio.

There was 2 posts that said towards the end there were problems. It got 4 whole responses one of which was yours, another was simply Meh. By no means is that evidence of anything.

 

It’s evidence of these things - 1) NOBODY stepped up to back up Lehigh, not one. 2) NGC’s board is on life support. 3) Trying to backdoor the issue from here onto another board is just too sad. It’s just so wrong.

 

That isn't true, nobody really gave a hoot because Teletrade doesn't exist anymore.

 

Just like the rarity of toned coins, right? (The WHOLE population, not a carefully excised subset.)

 

1) Now do CU forum where several said it was ridiculous
2) That's why I don't spend much time there
3) It happens all the time