Can y'all help me ID a few ancients I bought recently?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by CarolineP, Apr 27, 2020.

  1. CarolineP

    CarolineP Member

    Hi!

    So recently I bought 10 ancients for $40 total, but I can't ID some of them :( Could y'all help me, and tell me the approximate value of everything? I've ID'd the 2 in the one picture, and my thoughts on the other 8 so far are:

    Top row:
    1) Left is either a Philip II or ATG Macedonian bronze coin
    2) Looks like a Mauryan Karshapana or half Karshapana (not sure which one)
    3) No idea on the next one. Looks like Roman to me.
    4) Top right looks like some sort of early Islamic coin
    Bottom row:
    5) No idea on bottom left
    6) Next one looks like some sort of Philip V Macedonian coin, but the reverse doesn't look like any Philip V reverses I've seen
    7) Looks like a dichalkon from Arados
    8) Egyptian maybe? The "I D I" letters next to the eagle didn't turn anything up in my searches though.

    Also, I was told that the Claudius As may be a contemporaneous British copy...what are your thoughts on that one? I'm leaning towards it possibly being the first copy design listed here: http://augustuscoins.com/ed/imit/imitclaudius.html

    Thanks in advance :)
     

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  3. ominus1

    ominus1 ...BE SEEING YOU! Supporter

    ..the 2nd left top is an Muryan empire of India coin...and the bottom one is a US Lincoln...:D...kool group Caroline...:)
     
  4. Herodotus

    Herodotus Well-Known Member

    Rather than outright identify them, I could give you some decent clues on a few of them to help you along your way...

    The 1st coin(upper right) is indeed Kings of Macedon(type), Horseman on reverse. The obverse appears to be Herakles. You're on the right track with this one. Look at the position of all four of the horse's legs(or gait) for a match on the correct ruler.

    The 1st coin(left bottom) is portraying Athena(Corinthian Helmet is discernible), Pan reverse

    The 2nd (left bottom) appears to be Seleucid(Radiate)
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
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  5. CarolineP

    CarolineP Member


    Thanks for the help! Thanks to your comment I was able to positively ID the Athena/Pan coin. It's a bronze Macedonian coin from Antigonos II Gonatus, 277-239 BCE. I wonder if there's any way to clean off the caked on ancient dirt or whatever that is.

    Haven't gotten an exact ID on the Seleucid one yet, but thanks for pointing me in the right direction! Do you think the reverse could be an error? The spikes look like the same ones on the obverse!

    And I'll have to look harder @ the Philip II/ATG one, I'm leaning towards ATG because of the obverse, but the pictures I've seen look similar on the reverse (can't tell which gait is which yet).
     
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  6. CarolineP

    CarolineP Member

    Lol thanks :)
     
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  7. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    I was going to say, it looks like a brockage to me.
     
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  8. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    That Claudius As looks pretty good for a British copy. I think it is just a well worn and well circulated official strike.
     
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  9. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

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  10. CarolineP

    CarolineP Member

    It really looks like it! BUT mine is significantly smaller (about 14mm, 3.5g) compared to the example you linked & all the others I searched for (23mm+, 12g+).
     
  11. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    I don't arrive early enough to these ID parties to be of much help but am very impressed by what I see as someone quite capable of doing this work with minimum help. I assume the Arados image was taken before you realized that the reverse was a ship prow with three prong ram rather than a tripod. The next step might be to pick at some of the dirt with a toothpick and see if any of the legend comes out. The date is at the bottom reading right to left. Mine is "year" 100 '10' 5. I'm no expert on these but took the easy out and picked a specimen that I thought was readable out of a junk box.
    g72005bb2913.jpg

    I agree with your take on the Claudius. The style suggests a 'branch' mint. Congratulations of figuring out the brockage. Greek brockages are not all that common. It and the Pan strike me as candidates for soaking in distilled water after first trying to loosen the dirt with a toothpick. The secret on cleaning is to do the least first and moving on later after the least invasive thing failed. You can do dry pick first and soak later followed by more picking. If you use a more invasive method first, there is no going back. I do not care for the oil soaking and wire brushing that seems to ruin a lot of coins these days. These are opinions not shared by all.

    Thanks for posting here. I trust you will feel free to post any questions you have here and will suggest that you will be able to answer many of the more basic questions here (judging from your progress with these). We find that helping others with their coins helps our own abilities as well. Welcome to CT.
     
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  12. lehmansterms

    lehmansterms Many view intelligence as a hideous deformity

    I suspect that one is a Roman Provincial issue for Faustina Jr. or Lucilla.
    Unfortunately, if it is, the ethnic on the reverse is illegible which makes the job of ID'ing far more challenging (unless it's an easily recognizable type).
     
  13. CarolineP

    CarolineP Member

    Wow, thanks for all the info :) And yeah, I took those pictures before I had IDed ANY of them. How long would you recommend soaking the Seleucid brockage & Athena/Pan coins in water for? And how much do you think the Seleucid brockage coin is worth? I'm not planning to sell any of them, just curious!

    And I just weighed & measured the Claudius As, and it's definitely an unofficial version: 24mm & 6g, instead of the official 28mm & 12g. Honestly I should have started there, but I'm new to measuring and weighing my coins lol. Is it worth anything, or probably not? Either way, still pretty cool!

    There are still two coins that I still need a lot of help on: the tiny little eagle one (11mm, 2g), and the one with the Arabic script (23mm, 4g). What are your thoughts on them? I'm attaching close-up pics of each of them.
    For the eagle one, it's either Ptolemaic or Seleucid with that little middle dimple on the obverse. The reverse inscription on closer inspection either says A B I, A B A, or A B T. I'd GUESS it's Ptolemaic because of the eagle and the size, but honestly I'm not sure. The closest I could find to it are these pics: https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/8002/Ancient-Egypt-coins/ (first coin listed has the same size and composition, same position of reverse inscription but with different letters and the eagle facing the other way).
    http://ptolemybronze.com/ptolemy/gae787_r.jpg (similar eagle reverse, but much bigger and totally different obverse).
     

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  14. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    A lesson it is difficult for me to learn...
     
  15. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    I am no good on Islamic. I don't collect them. The bird strikes me as ABYDOS
    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=6097062
    but that is a gut feeling rather than a scientific study.

    In my experience, brockages tend to be worth about the same as the same normal coin. Their added appeal to some is what turns off most collectors who feel cheated out of half the coin. The specific answer depends on what is under the dirt. Smor brockages have great detail and would make me pay a premium while others are just junk and I would not pay any price (joining the people who feel cheated). I'd guess $20 plus or minus 100%. Some would ask more because it is rare. Some would give it to a kid because it is defective.

    Soaking in distilled water is a matter of who gives up first (you or the dirt). I'd start with a week and examine daily picking at the soil just to see if any come loose. If the water shows any sign of soil, change it. If not, change it every day or two anyway. Distilled water works best because tap/well water has minerals already and you are trying to get the coin to give up minerals. Most of us give up and try something too harsh with poor results. If you are a dentist and know how to dig slowly a tiny bit at a time, you might do better than if you are blind and have hand tremors. I have done well with a piece of solid copper wire sharpened on a grinder to a tiny point but I have also scratched coins because I am not well practiced and full of patience. Water is safer. Not knowing where you are located, I don't know if you can go out to get distilled water. A gallon is cheap and lasts a long time.
     
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  16. CarolineP

    CarolineP Member

    Bingo on the mini eagle coin. It's definitely Abydos, especially when I see it in person. Everything matches, down to the exact size (yay, glad I measured it right), design, and color! The top of the Y isn't present on mine since it's off center, but yeah. Thanks so much for your expert ID skills!! That would have taken me forever to find. I'll make a separate thread for the early Islamic fals - I'm sure the area of expertise on those is different from the other ancients I've posted since it's from a totally different era. If only I knew how to clean off that ugly copper corrosion...

    And sounds good on the water! Patience isn't one of my virtues, but if it makes my coins prettier without damaging them, I'll certainly try that method. I have absolutely zero experience with toothpicking coins, but I figure this is a good place to start. From what I can see, just gotta be gentle with the pick and not use the point 90 degrees straight on the coin.
     
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  17. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    It will be easier in 50 years. :)
     
  18. lehmansterms

    lehmansterms Many view intelligence as a hideous deformity

    You might consider that there are many different fabrics from which your "toothpicks" might be made - both metallic and non-metallic tools include (but are not limited to) materials ranging all the way from soft wooden toothpicks, bamboo skewers and brass tools, up to tungsten needles and Dremel-tools. How appropriate any one of them is must be determined on a coin-by-coin basis. Learning how to tell which tool is most appropriate for digging or flicking off encrustation and deposits on any given coin is really the trick. It's the sort of knowledge you can really only gain by experience.
    Let me just add this about the advice you get (even mine). Virtually every one of us has gone on this quest, or will go through it eventually:
    ~~The Search for the Magic Bullet~~
    Like perpetual motion, cold fusion or the Oak Island Treasure, the perception that such must, somehow - grail like - exist to be found is a powerful siren-song. "Somehow, boys, despite all evidence of its lack of likelihood, we'll finally manage to find the ultimate solution which quickly, safely and inexpensively allows anyone to bring any coin back to as close to its original state as is desired and universal entropy allows."
    Don't hold your breath. It does not exist. It is highly unlikely ever to exist - no magic bullets, sorry.
     
  19. Herodotus

    Herodotus Well-Known Member

    It's hard to be sure (w/out coin in hand), however, I suspect that the Macedonian ruler(on the horsemen reverse) may be Kassander.

    Attributing coins is such a thrill.

    I recently acquired a couple of those Athena/Pan coins in a mixed lot. I was able to attribute them based on the recognizable Athena/Corinthian helmet obverse, and then perusing types until I found a reverse that matched. Pan's shape (erecting a trophy) is still fresh in my mind. So I was able to quickly recognize the reverse on your coin.

    I also have one of those Arados coins that I was hitting a wall on -- whether I was looking at a tripod(?), half of an off-centered thunder bolt(?) or a ship's prow(?). I was thinking that it was a Seleucid type, as it came in a large batch of Seleucid coins (minted in and around Antioch) that I recently acquired. It all makes sense now, considering that Arados(Arwad) is only a little ways down the coast of modern day Syria.

    Doug came to the rescue on that one.

    Have you figured out the ruler on the (radiate)Seleucid coin yet?
     
  20. CarolineP

    CarolineP Member

    I think you're right about the Macedonian horse coin - it's definitely a Heracles obverse, so can't be Philip II. The horse rev is shared between P II, ATG, Kassander, and probably others, but the horse's leg positions match pictures of Kassander coins. Also, wow, did a little research on Kassander, and there's SO much messy ATG family drama before and during his reign.

    I'm pretty sure the radiate Seleucid brockage coin is from Antiochus VIII https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/pa..._bcowl_perched_on_amphora/619314/Default.aspx

    I can see what looks to be part of the owl on the reverse (I can post a closeup tomorrow) overtop of the brockage. The obverse matches too (although the obverse of A 8 & Alexander II Zabinas look very similar).
     
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