Can Rainbow Toned Coins get MS70/PF70?

The title says it all. I have some dimes that look flawless under loupe other than the rainbow toning (the reason I bought them). Can they still get perfect 70's?

 

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I have never seen one, but I don't think the grading standards prohibit it as long as the toning isn't detracting from the eye appeal.

 

It has happened before, it doesn't seem common but does happen

 

We would be happy to toss in a better guess if you tossed in some photos

 

Can it happen? Yes but probably not as the view is toning hides flaws. The type. color and pattern of the toning also make a difference. What appeals to me may not appeal to you.

 

Conceivably. I was unable to find any in a quick search. It should be noted there are no MS70 Dimes, only PF70's.

 

Today's fun trivia bit! Surely there will be one sooner or later...?

 

Strictly speaking, the new gold Mercs are dimes, and there are plenty of those around in MS70.

If the US Mint keeps chugging out more and more NCLT "stuff", I'd presume such a dime would/could end up in MS70 holders pretty easily.

I doubt NGC or PCGS would ever grade a business strike (meant for circulation) coin as MS70 again, after the 2003 PCGS MS70RD Cent debacle of a few years back. The coin is now downgraded to an MS69RD cent, and if I recall cost PCGS about $15,000 in grade guarantee remuneration.

 

That was fun, wasn't it?

Gotta hand it to PCGS, though. They did the right thing for the owner, and you can't blame them for being gun-shy since. I suspect if it ever happens, it'll be a silver Rosie nobody's seen yet.

They're in a tough place, in this day and age when professional-level imagery is within reach of the average collector. If someone ever actually came up with a 70-worthy coin (mind, PCGS is the only TPG I trust with that designation, much as I dislike them otherwise), they either have to grade it that way or be held to account very publicly with photographic proof why they should have.

It would be easy for them if they would simply use the strict definition of a 70, but that would probably eliminate close to half the coins they've already awarded the grade. Rock and a hard place.

 

I owned a satin-finish NGC 2005 MS70RD Lincoln Cent for several years. I sold it last year, as I'm slowly getting out of US coins. But, that coin was the closest I have seen to a true MS70 coin, even though it came from a specially handled, special finish mint set. There are 28 graded MS70RD SMS (satin finish) cents from both NGC and PCGS -- and PCGS has graded 18 of those to only 10 by NGC. I'm not sure why you would be biased toward the PCGS grades at that level.

 

Over the years I've looked at a ton of 70's in Heritage-level resolution during research for one post or another. Of them, PCGS examples show details I feel disqualifying far less often than those from the other TPG's. They get as much as 75-80% right, and I can find flaws in six out of ten (guesstimation) NGC examples.

I looked at 10 of them in full resolution, and the first 50 results in listing-size resolution, for the single post I made above, for instance.

 

I presume you're talking about modern commems or graded bullion (ASEs, etc)? I'm not convinced either TPG does more than flip a coin for assigning 70s to those.

Modern proof grades are about the same -- 69 today, 70 tomorrow. If I had infinite amounts of cash, I'd submit a whole bunch of cracked out modern proof 70s, and see what percentage actually come back 70 the 2nd time around. I don't think the TPGs would want to know that number.

 

If they accept coins with monochromatic toning for PR70 grades, I don't see why they wouldn't do the same for coins with rainbow toning.



1964 5C PR70 PCGS $948.75 (9/2004)

 

Okay. Got some interesting information in this thread. I had never even heard of the ms70rb cent thing brg5658 mentioned and still can't find anything about it. Sounds interesting. Odd that there are no MS70's.

And I've been trying to take some photos of them but both my lamp that I use to get colors and computer to post them broke a couple weeks ago so all I have is my phone.

Most are lightly toned and speckled but I have some really nice red and blue ones that I can't see any scratches or flaws on so I'll try getting a phone photo with natural light tomorrow.

 

And they might all be proofs, not totally sure though. Definitely silver.

 

Yeah, those. They're the typical question context in which I need to research an answer. As to be expected - Heritage lists 23,125 coins when I search for "MS70," and 22,038 of them are Modern Commems or Bullion. In fact, I didn't see an actual intended-for-circulation 70 in the results. I know PCGS has a couple 1994-P Business Strike Jeffersons in MS70, and - believe it or not - 22 2012-S Denali Quarters(!?) - but that's it.

 

Those 1994-P Jeffersons are NOT business strikes. They are specimen matte strikes from the Jefferson Coinage and Currency sets (mintage 167,703). In registry sets, these are generally listed as a part of the "proof" coin types.

 

PCGS Pops has the Matte strikes listed in a different category. There are 71 1994's and 135 1997's of those, and I didn't count them. The two I mentioned are specifically listed in Business Strikes.

 

I'm quite sure they are mis-classified in the pops then. I assure you there are NO MS70 business strike Jefferson nickels from 1994. Seems the databases have some crossed wires at times -- likely PCGS put the wrong coin # on the slab and in their system when the coins were submitted.

As example, look at this supposed business strike 1994-P graded MS69FS by PCGS. In my opinion, that coin is a mis-attributed Matte Specimen coin -- and some whacko paid $730 for it. PCGS does get it wrong -- and they would probably consider this a "mechanical error" and not covered by the guarantee.

Don't you think it a bit odd that they have graded supposed 2 in MS69 and 2 in MS70, but zero in MS68, and only 3 in MS67. I can almost 100% say the MS69 and MS70 graded ones are Specimen Matte coins.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if you were completely correct. What astounded me was the Denali Quarters, which also include 12 of the 17 MS69's in the America The Beautiful series. I get that San Francisco issued them solely for collectors, and would have taken pains to produce nice coins, but there isn't so much as a 69 among their other issues from the series.