Can a coin be uncirculated if it has been cleaned?

Which is why we now talk about MS much of the time instead of "uncirculated".

Which is a sensible solution to what was really a bit of nonsense.

 

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Two "facts" to consider:

1. The US Mint cleans EVERY Coin during the manufacturing process
2. The US Mint sends out EVERY circulation quality coin to the Federal Reserve Bank as the recipient. Therefore EVERY coin produced for circulation is actually circulated.

Now, the reality is that circulated vs uncirculated has NEVER been used to describe what happened to or where a coin has been. It has ALWAYS been used to describe the state of preservation or the coin which basically boils down to whether or not any original mint luster remains on the coins surfaces.

 

"Which is why we talk about MS..."

But doesn't MS lead to more excercises in insanity? Where is the line for minted and post minted? If the feeder arm left a tick mark somewhere when it knocked the struck coin from the die, is it really MS?

 

Seriously?

yes, still MS

 

One of these days, we'll talk about proof......

 

One of these days, we'll talk about hypothetical......

 

I once sent an "uncirculated" 2013 P Nickel into NGC I got from the cage cashier at the casino. It had 6 FS and had great luster. Technically that coin was circulated as it was in the bin I got it from. It came back MS 64 6 FS. We could split hairs all day on definitions, but it does come down to how much wear a coin actually has.

 

Maybe I should sue the US Mint for deceptive advertising because they said they were brilliant uncirculated.

Chris

 

Cleaning has nothing to do with the grade. I don't have any cleaned coins and I don't want any.

 

from Wikipedia article on the Sheldon scale:

Mint State most commonly refers to a coin's condition and is attributed to a coin, minted for regular distribution, but has never experienced general circulation. The coin can therefore be described "as new" or "Uncirculated".

In modern-day United States numismatics, mint state coins are given a number from 60 to 70 inclusive, with 70 being perceived as a perfect coin with no visible blemishes. Coins with a lower grade (60-63), although unworn, may suffer from weak striking, bag marks and other defects that make them less attractive to the collector. Some early coins appear quite worn-looking in mint state, due to striking problems or problems with the coin's planchet and/or metal quality. Other, similar-date, specimens are currently unknown to exist in uncirculated condition.
The terms Brilliant (Abbr: BU), Choice, and Gem have been used to describe Uncirculated grades. A Brilliant uncirculated coin can describe any coin over the grade of MS60. Choice Uncirculated is used for coins MS-64 and above, while Gem Uncirculated is used for coins graded MS65 and above.

Here's a perfect example of an MS-60 coin that is marked "CLEANED"

 

I'm still trying to figure out what "Improperly cleaned" means. Is there a proper way?

 

Can you be sure?

 

Are you sure? Do you own any certified coins? Do you own any raw coins that you purchased from someone else?

Chris

 

it would not matter how clean it is if it was passed around from hand to hand then in my book unless it was sealed in some way from day 1 then no its either uncirculated or circulated it wont change if it is cleaned

 

All of the raw coins I own were purchased from an extremely reputable dealer years ago. They do not grade enough to waste my time or money with a grade. All of the certified coins I own to not state "cleaned" on the label. I have never purchased raw coins worth grading from individuals or a dealer. I know what I want and what I like and I stick to it.

 

That's the point. The fact that the TPG label doesn't say that it has been cleaned doesn't mean that it hasn't been. It merely means that in the TPG's opinion it hasn't been harshly cleaned to the point that it is notable.

Same thing with raw coins. Unless you have owned the coin since it left the mint there is no way to know that a coin has never been cleaned...only that it has (or hasn't) been harmed by a cleaning.

 

Unless the dealer who sold you the raw coins owned them ever since they were struck does not mean they have never been cleaned by a previous owner. Just because the slabs you own do not state "Cleaned" or "Improperly Cleaned" does not mean they have never been cleaned. Dipping in acetone is one form of cleaning, and if it is done properly, cannot be detected. So, you cannot state positively that you don't own any cleaned coins.

Chris

 

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