Calling all owners of coin sites

I've decided to work on a coin related website. I won't post a link because first of all it's in it's infancy and also I'm not interested in breaking the rules for self promotion. I am however running into an issue already that I'm not sure how to overcome.

I've had multiple websites in the past, some successful, some not. Most were what we internet marketers call "churn & burn" sites. Built for maximum traffic and click through rate at the risk of getting slapped by google. The site I'm working on is NOT going to be like that. This is a long term project, that will at some point be monetized to some extent. In any case, I never had issues finding photos to use for my other sites. I'm however finding this is going to be a challenge for this new project. I want to write things about coins I don't own so I can't take my own pictures and finding non licensed stock photography for specific coins is also very hard, especially without using paid stock photo sites.

Has anyone else run into similar issues? I don't mind attributing the photos to the owner, I just want license/royalty free photos.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

What genre are you planning to feature? What kind of coins are you needing photos of?

 

Forgive me for playing devil's advocate, but your goal is to create a website (which you plan to eventually make money from) but you don't want to pay anyone for the images/media that will make your website interesting to look at? If I found out you were making money off my creative work (or intellectual property) and not compensating me for it in some way, we might have a problem to discuss.

(I'm not attacking you, just pointing out how someone who took the images or owns the coins might see your question.)

When I took dance photos for the students at the University of Utah, I told them that every image I took was free for them to use for promotional purposes (for example, concert posters) or to use on their websites as long as they cited my name as photographer in addition to other applicable citations - costume designer, choreographer, etc.

Did I go to a dance festival and see an old classmate displaying a book of his work (using a bunch of images I took) outside a showing of a piece of choreography in progress? Yes I did. Did he cite me as the photographer/editor? No, he did not.

Did I see one of my images on promotional materials for the University of Utah cited to a different photographer (a professional one) while I was interviewing for a teaching position at a different university? Yes I did.

Perhaps a solution might be to partner with someone who images coins for a living in exchange for allowing them to advertise their services for free or having the images clickthrough to their website. But you need to credit someone for their work at the very least, and if you're going to make money off their work, you need to compensate them. It's pretty simple IMO.

 

I have one web site where I own all the images (10,000+) and even that has been a struggle at times. It is non-commercial if this gives you any ideas http://www.1881o.com

I am working on another one that is a struggle but also non-commercial. I will have my own images (2,000+-) bought and paid for, but there is a very small group of others (32). The other images are readily available through any internet search and the owner is lost to time or is anonymous by design.

The only thing I think I can do is post the few I need with a disclaimer as to origin and a willingness to remove any image not in the public domain if contacted by the owner. It is a bit like the issue of citing an auction catalog that is readily available like you would quote and reference a book. In all cases I am not taking credit for the data, only accumulating it for analysis.

Also as to contacting the owner, I think this is best but I have found almost a useless exercise these days. I have tried with auction houses, authors, internet sites, and the like with no success. It seems to me these days that there is general acceptance that everything is available to everybody, just give me credit for the work if you use it.

 

I am certainly in agreement with this statement, I have just hit a brick wall when the owner is lost to time. With many internet images it is impossible to know the source, certainly impossible to know the original source.

I have also hit the new and unusual phenomena of finding data on a defunct web site, bankrupt auction site, or a known internet source who is deceased.

 

Thanks for the clarification, I wasn't really wanting to share it at this point anyway. Like I say, it's really in it's infancy and requires much more research and writing before being ready for the "public eye". Also, I wasn't sure where at some point I may monetize via google ads, or affiliate links even if in a minimumal way, if that would break the rule. Thanks again!

So here's the thing, and I didn't really notice this until I got into internet marketing, but there are countless number of images available for free use. Many photographers are happy to share their work, some want to be referenced, some do not. Some don't want it used for commercial work, some don't care. If you have any interest check out creative commons licensing.

As Doug mentioned in his edit, this is pretty common practice. NOW, where the line is usually drawn is if you are making money directly off the person's work. So example would be if I took an image non-licensed or creative commons, and then printed and sold that image without direct consent or compensation to the photographer. That is in fact illegal. However, as long as used as I plan to and under the proper licensing and attribution it's fine. I guarantee you've visited numerous websites that utilize this. Ever been to one of those "top 10" sites, like top 10 TV's of 2018. Ya, that's a straight up internet marketing site designed solely to collect ad and affiliate money. Dollars to donuts they're using free images on their site.

I actually have provided some stock photography in the past for creative commons. I do some landscape and wildlife photography occasionally and I've uploaded these things to places such as shutterstock and other stock image sites, some free, some not.

I may purchase some stock photos but it gets pricey at $2-$10 an image when the site will never make much money and certainly not for a while. That's why I'm hoping to use some of my own photography but I'm already running into issues due to the lack of coins in my collection.

 

It's not that I disagree with you, but....

"I want to write things about coins I don't own so I can't take my own pictures and finding non licensed stock photography for specific coins is also very hard, especially without using paid stock photo sites."

Perhaps it could have been worded better, but it seems quite clear the OP is not looking to steal images belonging to others and is simply asking for suggestions/advice, especially if looked at this in its proper context.

 

I think this is generally true in a sort of unspoken manner but I have known of people having very successful websites shut down with cease and desist orders for using photographs that weren't properly licensed. It's rare, but it does happen. Not that I expect to be the next big coin site, but I'd hate to lose all that work for something simple like improper image attribution or licensing.

 

Ya I probably should have worded it differently as I know some people are not familiar with creative commons licensing and royalty free images. There are MILLIONS of them available online. But finding specific coins is proving almost impossible thus far. I might have to suck it up and either contact some photographers directly or buy a few iStock photos here and there.

I am actually purposely trying to AVOID stealing photos whether done on purpose or not. The last thing I want is to have a site shut down.

 

Trust me, I understand.

 

I totally missed your reply, it was short and succinct so it was overshadowed by some of the others.

So the project is probably much more ambitious than I can really handle but my area of focus at the moment is Early Commemoratives because I have a large interest in it. My budget does not allow for purchase of many of these coins save perhaps the Columbian Expo half dollar which I'm planning to buy soon. The articles I wish to write will include not only facts about the coin but what brought them to be, what's the history behind the design, and other interesting things I can find that surround the coin.

 

this web site might help you https://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/public-domain/welcome/

All this conversation has me thinking though and in my case I have an answer to my 32 images. Since I am using them as "representative examples" of a variety I can in fact create my own image and avoid any copyright issue.

There is another thing pointed out on this web site that was not mentioned above. Facts can be quoted without regard to copyright. Images might or might not apply based on the image and your usage. GDJMSP might want to chime in, but stating that a certain coin was certified by a TPG is a statement of fact. Stating that a coin appeared in an auction catalog is also a statement of fact and so long as you do not reference their certificate number might not need permission. In the auction cases if you are not quoting from the catalog, only stated the appearance, would you need permission or is that a statement of fact?

For example, if I reference that the last appearance of an 1909-S V.D.B. was in the Stacks-Bowers auction on 1/1/2011, is that a fact only when not directly quoting the listing?

 

Have you noticed how many self-claimed "professional coin photographers" there are today? Second to self-crowned "dealers" this is arguably the most common "business venture" both for those involved in this hobby as well as those just entering into it. Some guys do truly good work while others not so much, but the greater point is that you've lots of options, especially if not looking to address extreme rarities and/or coins that cost as much or more than the average house.

Aside from coins, just think of how many people buy a "big" camera and then deem themselves "professional photographers". I use Facebook on the down low and only and only to follow one thing, but I regularly see people without a drop of talent, skill, or ability claiming the "pro" label and/or offering their services. If familiar with the cost of hiring a professional 20-30 years ago compared to rates charged by those claiming such today, you'll understand my little digression here.

Digital photography has in many ways changed the landscape (so to speak) and is particularly true in the area you're interested in. Not only is the subject matter generally very common, but there's tons of perfectly capable individuals photographing it. The point here is that it's not like you're in need of the absolute perfect highest quality shot of a certain landscape only available at a certain time of year and requires months of planning or hiking 30 miles through hell in order to achieve. Quality coin images in many respects are a dime a dozen, and many capable folks will be happy simply receiving credit for their work. The problem is finding them, but if there's a will there's also a way.

 

Jeepfreak81, I do not want to rain on anyone's desire to expand their knowledge, no matter what the field is, and I value any addition to knowledge sources that are not readily available today. But having been on many panels from high school science fairs to college dissertation panels, positive outcomes do not come easily mainly because of lack of background or insufficient time allowed to acquire it before jumping into projects. I have read many of your posts, and I had the idea that you were still in the learning stage, but willing to learn. My advice, having been in the position of voluntarily acquiring a new interest, and spending lots of time and money to become adept at it. If you have not enough money, spend more time : If you have less time , spend more money. If you mess it up the first time , people will not have trust in you or the site. No offense intended.

Jim

 

You might be able to frame coin images from another website. For those who aren't familiar with framing, the image per se is never really on the secondary website, only the link. But the images appear in browsers as though they're on the secondary website. It's best to get permission before doing it; there have been lawsuits over the practice. An enticement for commercial sites, like dealers and auction houses, to give permission would be a credit below each frame that is also a link to their homepage.

The downside is that all the links have to be monitored frequently to make sure they're still live and the images haven't changed. This process can be turned over to a bot though. Some websites, like Heritage Auctions, have a huge number of coin images and many have been there for years. I don't know whether the structure of the URL's for their images has changed over the years.

Framing is an alternative to having all images on your own server. There are pluses and minuses to each approach.

Cal

 

This is unfortunately true and I have looked into doing my own photography several times. Each time I figured that by the time I bought the equipment, took some courses, practiced, and then started shooting I could have just paid someone who is professional. For me time is the issue. Do I want to learn a new photography skill or collect coins? I have chosen to collect coins!

 

True but this is going to be beyond the skill set of most of us and the constant monitoring for dead links can be a pain unless automated. And even then, if the image is gone it is gone.

But this whole discussion has been really helpful. I had a set of very rare coins that I was worried about showing on my web site and could not find the owners to gain permission. I suddenly realized that I can create my own "representative" images without having to gain permission. Problem solved. Thanks for a good discussion.

 

I am working on a book about error coins and I have taken multiple photos of my coins as well as the slabs.

I then want to annotate the photos to explain the type of error it is and how it likely happened.

I am im the process of writing the 4 major TPGs to ask if I am allowed to show the entire label of the coins I own, and what i need to do should they give permission. I am concerned that my section on "error labels of error coins" would be embarrassing for them and they might not grant permission.

I have also asked on a different thread for people to send me photos of their personal coins which came back in body bags along with the reason they were rejected, and if i have permission to use their photos for my book so long as I credit them.

I am first creating it on shutterfly, and then hoping to have it peer-reviewed, but do not know yet what that involves.

 

Sounds like a jab at the TPGs and I am not sure how they would take it. I never consider error holders to be error coins, and body bags are often only a temporary opinion of a specific grader. if the problem is fixable then a regrade is always possible.

On the photo issue I have never considered it an issue with a coin I own. otherwise eBay will have to shut down. Swiping pix off of eBay and pretending that you own the coin might be more of an issue. I will be interested in what they say.