CAC's cold shoulder to the modern/post-modern era

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People have been bashing moderns since 1965 and this is more of it. If they didn't want to "strain at gnats, trying to determine in 1000 new types of coins where to draw the line between 69 and 70" they could simply not grade those coins that often come in very hagh grade. I don't see the logic in this but then I don't see why all graders don't grade whatever collectors demand.

The belief that the modern market is akin to beanie babies is, of course, modern bashing in itself. This isn't to say that this market is as secure and stable as the market for classic coins but this is part of the definition of "modern".

The only way I can see this optimistically is to assume they don't have the staff and the expertise so want to concentrate on what they think they can do competently.

I believe they will sticker business strike Ikes so it's easy to just assume they don't have the manpower yet and/ or they are trying to get into the market gradually and maintain a good reputation. I can give them the benefit of the doubt in any case but the modern market is far larger than just looking at the difference between flyspecks on proofs.

 

I was not trying to demean modern collecting in the slightest sir. I have no ill will towards modern collectors at all. My only concern is the hyper-importance placed on ultra high grades and the ability of shucksters to use this supposed "rarity" to pimp out overpriced, common coins.

Again, not demeaning your aspect of the hobby at all, as I am sure there is great numismatics to be had in modern issues. However, how many times does HSN promote XF/AU SL halves, or nice Fine early large cents, or gVF Roman Republican denari? The facts are that television pitchmen and hustlers promote slabbed "rare" modern coins. If CAC does not want their name associated with such antics, this might be the reason they refuse to give opinion on modern coins.

I am NOT saying all modern collectors are like HSN, buy from HSN, or anything of the sort. However, those promoters do play in your sandbox, and unfortunately will affect your aspect of the hobby.

 

"modern bashing"? What are we high school freshmen being picked on and bullied by the seniors here, or adults collecting coins?

 

I get that Doug. What I don't get is if you so much as raise an eyebrow or disagree with a point toward many modern collectors they automatically throw out the ol modern bashing whine, even if that's the furthest thing from what you're doing. No other segment of coin collecting seems to have such sensitive dispositions. I for one think people should collect whatever the heck they want, and so long as it fills their needs that's all that matters. It just baffles me the way it sometimes comes across as people being bullied when in fact they aren't.

 

I thought we were Miami Dolphins players..........

 

One of the things that has always attracted attention to any collectible is age. The older beanie babies from the 1980's were worth more than the new ones generally. This is quite natural. Almost every collector has some preference for "old". This may or may not manifest in all his collections but it still exists.

"Modern bashing" is far different on many levels. Primarily it's the fact that people who collected 1840's coins in the 1850's weren't looked down on but also people didn't look down on the coins; they merely considered them common and unimportant. Many modern bashers would wash their hands if they touched a clad one inadvertantly.

There's another thing too that is different and that is in the 1850's (more in the 1880's) lots of people collected, saved, and set aside moderns. Yes, they were common and unimportant but they figured that future collectors would desire pristine examples. This simply hasn't happened with moderns. There have been no collectyors of moderns at all, or at least, there probably weren't a dozen before 1978. Even today with the millions of modern collectors there areprobably no more than about 3000 serious collectors of circulation issue moderns!!! This is a tiny fraction of the number who collect just V-nickels or trade dollars. This is why moderns from all over the world are suddenly exploding in price; it's not because of huge demand appearing out of nowhere but rather a handful of collectors competing for even fewer coins. The coins simply weren't saved. Far more coins were saved from the 1840's than from more recent times. If not for the existence of mint sets even most of the more coins would be unavailable in unc.

 

I shouldn't post in the morning. I knew you weren't trying to bash moderns.

There's really nothing wrong with it even if you were but I would have pointed it out.

I really don't have a problem with the high grades but there is more opportunity for shucksters to operate here. It seems to me that all collectors now days are virtually obsessed with quality and that this will be to some extent a fad. Keep in mint computers and the net made this obsession possible and they aren't going away so quality will probably stay more important than it once was.

Anyone paying a huge premium for a high grade should be familiar with what a slightly lower grade looks like and should be able to usually tell the differnce. There would be very weak foundations for a market founded on indiscernable differences. The differencesare real but buyers should be able to spot them or they are taking a risk that is unnecessary.

 

I only point it out so that newbies can see the attitude that has led to the current situation. Also I get a chance to sing the praises of the coins (in which I'm emotionally and financially invested). One of the things that historically has led to lots of collector interest is that the coins were once held in disdain so it's to my benefit and the benefit of the modern markets to point it out and show that the bashing is baseless and emotional rather than real and logical.

Oftimes I am offended a little bit by comments but usually try not to let it show. Clads and circulating moderns are my favorite coins to collect and having them called worthless junk sometimes gets through to me.

One other thing that I believe is critical to the future of the entire hobby is that moderns will be the gateway collection. Very few youngsters are going to start with rare coins and ALREADY HAVE clad states quarters collections. Calling these collections modern junk and demeaning the collectors can't possibly be good for the hobby. The hobby should always try to be inclusive anyway no matter what others collect whether it's beanie babies or antique thimbles. The more the merrier.

A final note; I like literally all coins. It's somewhat offensive to hear bad stuff about any of them even if no one ever waxes poetic about a discolored VF 1987 penny.

 

I really don't see that so much.

I could say bad things about lots of moderns but try not to say anything bad about any coins. So long as a negative statement is true or I'm not sure of the intent I always try to hold my tongue.

Sometimes I phrase things poorly. I love message boards but there is inherent weakness in communication without body language and nuance.

You're probably right that modern collectors are a little more sensitive than others but there are millions of people who hate bust half dollars and if I collected these I wouldn't care as much.

 

I do not see any real modern bashing going on - I think a lot of collectors start out collecting moderns cause they can do it from change. I don't consider myself a modern collector, but hey I have a state quarter collection and I have lincolns all the way to 2013. So collecting moderns is a good way to get people started and then they can move to some of the classics.