CAC Tales

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by GoldFinger1969, Nov 13, 2020.

  1. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    Thought CAC deserved its own thread. Anything to do with CAC.... pros...cons....successes....failures....likes... dislikes... whatever. :D
     
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  3. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    Start this thread out on a good note, and a premium gem Elgin that was solid for the grade.

    [​IMG]

    People love to post coins that they think don’t deserve a green bean, I like to post the ones that do!
     
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  4. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    Here's something that I came across on an old thread ATS last year that I wanted to explore. It concerned Saint-Gaudens and MS65 CACs vs. MS66's.

    I'm not sure there's a typo here that is confusing me....or if I am just not understanding something peculiar to CACs or Saints:

    OK.....I'm OK up to the part about "Imagine the storm...." where the author says that if 6% of Morgans/Quarters CAC'ed the collectors would revolt (but why ?). Then.... he/she says that this happened with Saints in the MS65-67 range. So....6% of all MS65-67 Saints got a CAC sticker.

    Then an analogy of Morgans/Iowa(?) vs. Saints at the MS65 level which he says isn't valid.

    Then....he says CAC has stickered 200 of the MS68 Morgans or 43%...that's a huge %.....but much less than the 3% rate for MS65-67 Saints referenced earlier (keep in mind this thread was from a few years ago, numbers may have changed). A reference to "statistical error" follows.

    My Confusion: in the first part the reference is to 6% of Saints getting a CAC sticker which he implies is too high (the Morgans and Quarter people would go nuts). But later he says that the 3% Saint CAC rate for MS65-67 (not 6% ?) is much lower than the 43% MS68 CAC Morgan rate.

    I'm not sure what the person is saying here or if there's some typos in the paragraph that are throwing me off (3% vs. 6%, what is "Iowa", and is the 3% or 6% rate for Saints too low or too high compared to Morgans, "Iowa", and Quarters).

    Anybody figure out what point the author of that post/paragraph was trying to make ?
     
  5. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    Nice coin and nice pics, Lehigh !
     
  6. WLH22

    WLH22 Well-Known Member

    The shipwreck gold coins are all over the place in look and quality. Not every CAC gold coin fits my collection, but there are a lot of non-CAC coins that for sure don't. I had to buy this one the minute I saw the short video clip sent to me. Thanks to Michael at Minshull Trading for this one. The luster is amazing. Almost like it just came from the mint.
    $20 1857S MS64+CAC.jpg
     
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  7. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    An Iowa is a commemorative half dollar, though I’m not sure why he chose that one to make his point.

    His broader point is that Saints suffer from rampant over grading, and at the premium gem level, almost all of them are dreck for the assigned grade. He’s also complaining that there is no real outrage about it because the collector base of premium gem Saints is a pretty small group. He’s saying that if a more popular and widely collected series were overgraded in a similar way, the collector base would have a cow.
     
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  8. WLH22

    WLH22 Well-Known Member

    Since this started with a discussion of overgraded Saints I thought I would post this one. It is but far my favorite CAC $20 Saint that I own. This is thanks to Shaun at Mikes Coin Chest. I think both PCGS and CAC got it right on this one. There is a certain look John wants and many gold coins don't fit that.

    It can be very difficult finding gold coins with CAC stickers. I feel much has to do with cleaning. CAC does not like cleaned coins but the TPG's don't seem to mind.

    $20 1908NM MS66+ CAC True View.jpg
     
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  9. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    OK thanks Lehigh.....so it's almost like overgrading and % of CAC are inversely related, that was the point he was trying to make with the very high CAC % for the Morgans.
     
  10. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    You think the TPGs are letting cleaned/altered coins get straight-graded in quantity ?
     
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  11. WLH22

    WLH22 Well-Known Member

    I think coins in the new PCGS Gold Shield holders are graded much more accurately then ones from 10 or so years ago. They have corrected their grading issues. Many others have commented on the over grading era.

    If you look at Walkers, Morgans and Peace Dollars TPG's (and even CAC) don't seem to mind dipped/cleaned coins. Maybe a dipped coin is not considered cleaned, but it is to me. When it comes to gold coinage, CAC seems to want original coloring or they don't sticker it. Maybe that is why the percentage of sticked gold coins is so low compared to other coinage.
     
  12. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 66+ Supporter

    That's one commemorative that's on my bucket list. I was born in Elgin so it has special meaning to me. Your coin would definitely fit the bill.
     
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  13. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    It's considered fine

    Many gold coins have also been messed with at a pretty high rate, especially more valuable ones.
     
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  14. Two Dogs

    Two Dogs Well-Known Member

    Wow, that's a beauty!
     
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  15. Two Dogs

    Two Dogs Well-Known Member

    Just read the definitions for grading that PCGS and NGC post. Prior to MS gem grades, hairlines are allowed.
     
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  16. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    "Dipping" (of Morgans only ?) is considered OK ? Why would dipping be OK but "cleaning" not ?

    You mean cleaned ? Or had gold-coloring enhancements added ?
     
  17. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    Not sure what you are saying 2Dog..... you mean for < MS65 a "hairline" is allowed ? Hairline die crack ?
     
  18. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Any series that's done properly. Dipping is perfectly acceptable and you really can't tell when done right, it's one of the conservation tools used as well. You can ruin coins doing it but done right it's perfectly acceptable

    I mean everything including being rubbed down with putty to hide flaws.
     
  19. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    It depends on how it is dipped. I can dip a coin that gets through PCGS and CAC. Not once do I dip a coin directly into a container of Jeweluster. I have gotten rid of unsightly toning spots on coins that were slabbed and got the same or a higher grade on it.
     
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  20. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    Comparing the percentage of Morgans going to CAC with the number of Saints means nothing. There are many more Morgans, and much fewer Saints to begin with. And, as with slabbing, just because something is rare in a grade, like a 1945-S Lincoln Cent in MS68 Red, doesn't mean it is rare - it just means that not many are being sent in to pay $20+ to certify.
     
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  21. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    That're really not true. If it was so easy as just sending more in people would be doing it left and right. The overwhelming majority of those were never a 68 the day they were minted much less almost a 100 years later from which ones are even left
     
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