"CAC" sticker? Is this necessary, or should I pursue one?

How did US collectors manage before CAC Stickers came out, it must have been a nightmare with just those TPG Slab stickers

 

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I think what you are saying has a lot of merit...but I also think it depends on how your business is run. You are assuming that working capitol is very limited and thus you need to quickly move inventory. This model fits a small coin shop where the owner cannot afford to have too much capitol invested into one piece and let it sit on the shelf. However, there are a lot of very large dealers in the US who don't have that problem and are capable of maximizing each coin's profitability. Dealers who have millions of dollars of inventory (and there are a bunch of them) and take a coin in, get it stickered and then get it sold. Even if that coin was in their inventory for 8 weeks...because they have enough capitol and inventory they don't take a hit.

Granted, most businesses don't have this luxury. But, some do...and those are the business that really use CAC to help them. Also, because of the volume of coins they sell, many coins end up with a sticker.

I think part of the problem with this thread is people are being too general. One set of rules doesn't equally apply to all businesses.

 

Finally! An intelligent response.

Thank you CamaroDMD!

Yes, I was assuming finite resources. I was assuming that if you bought a coin for $8K, that $8K was tied up until you sold that coin and couldn't be used to buy other coins. I was also assuming that money isn't free. That if you bought an $8K coin, that you either borrowed the money and are paying interest, or that you took it out of other investments that were earning interest.

 

I think this whole thread represents the limitations of online discussion—of anything. Otherwise intelligent, informed and well-meaning individuals, who would probably enjoy each other's company discussing these things over a beer (because, let's face it, how many people out there in the world really care about CAC stickers?), get into parsing out slight discrepancies of meaning ad nauseum. Slight differences in a person's writing style are interpreted as innuendo, etc, and tempers flare.

Call me old-fashioned but I think these conversations should take place in a pub.

 

Exactly. I think part of the issue we are running into on this thread is that many coin dealers at shows...the dealers that have the case full of $10K coins have the financial resources to hold onto those coins a little longer to maximize return on that item. When I think of high dollar coins for sale, I think of those dealers.

From my personal experience visiting my local coin shops, they don't tend to stock really high dollar coins simply because they can't sink that much capitol into one piece. If for some reason, they had one I'm sure they would try and sell it ASAP.

I think a lot of the responses here about those high dollar coins have the larger dealer in mind because that is where we see the majority of the high dollar coins. I think that is in part why this thread has become a little heated. Everyone is arguing their point from the side that makes sense.

I fully agree.

 

Nobody basically called you anything. You seem to think that your knowledge of business will make you a successful coin dealer despite the fact that you obviously don't know very much about coins or the coin market. You dug yourself a very deep hole and each time we school you, you just keep digging deeper. I have news for you, most of the people who post here have business experience outside the coin industry. I have worked in casino management for the last 15 years and have a BS in Materials Science & Engineering, so don't be so condescending to think that you are Mr. successful.

Furthermore, I don't know where you think you are finding an endless supply of $8K coins available that you can flip for a $1K profit in 7 days. If dealing coins was that easy, everyone would be doing it. The client list at that level is very exclusive and they usually have a very specific want list and very specific demands about the qualities of the coin. It isn't as easy as just calling up your wholesaler and saying "hey, I need another $8K coin" In the real coin world, you get one bite at the apple at that level and you need to maximize the profit on each coin. You never made the assumption that the seller in the scenario had limited capital reserves or a cash flow problem. You are only making that up now to bolster you initial position. You seem to think that the hard part about being a coin dealer is selling the coins and capital management. If you knew anything about the coin market, you would know that finding fresh inventory at a price that allows for 20% markup is the most difficult part of the business.

So you don't like being called an idiot, even though nobody called you an idiot. Well, we don't like being called a sucker by a guy who doesn't understand the concepts of gradeflation or incremental grading. You specifically called Leadfoot a sucker in one of your posts. Let me tell ya buddy, that guy knows more about coins than just about anyone else on this forum and my guess is based on the price level of some of his coins that he is successful in whatever his business is as well. You want respect? Then start showing some to the other members of this forum, get off your soapbox, listen and learn.

 

I am going to stay out of the arguing, but I agree with Lehigh, and others who are rather expert at high end coins. I consider myself pretty knowledgeable, but always have time to learn from true pros, despite my doing this for 40 years plus. He's right--the high end market is extremely specialized, and clients at that end of the market ( I have been one a fair number of times) are choosy about what they buy, and from whom they do the purchasing. So, why denigrate a designation that has value to "high end" collectors? I, for one, welcome any positive input from third party services that enhances the value and marketability of my coins, and have no reason to begrudge anybody about this. Should someone disagree with that, it is their prerogative to do so, and please do it nicely, as things are getting too tense around here with name calling, post stalking, and constant bickering. Why can't we all agree to disagree and voice our objections politely, and back off if it offends someone else? I think the hobby is quite difficult, and making "easy money" is not the rule here--should one be a shrewd investor, so be it, and congrats to them. However, we are all in the same field of interest, so why denigrate someone liking the CAC designation? What exactly does that accomplish, other than acrimony?

 

Nonsense! You're the one making stuff up. I mentioned "time value of money" on the first page. That basically relies on the assumptions that money is finite and not free.

Normally I wouldn't have, but he did specifically ask for my opinion, so I offered it. I didn't think I know more than he does about coins, nor did I think he's a full on sucker, I merely said "To a certain extent, yes". The discussion has come a long way since then and I have since changed my stance on getting coins certified by CAC. For the sake of not further derailing this poor thread, I will not go into detail of why I said that.

Great. I look forward to learning a thing or two from him, and BooksB4Coins, ctrl, Morgandude11, TheCoinGeezer, CamaroDMD, oval_man and of course you too. I have learned a lot since I found this site, and I still have a lot to learn.

But since this little squabble began, I have sought to find common ground. I have looked for and found things that I can agree with. I have admitted that I was wrong about some things. I have tried to put the argument to rest. Can you say the same?

 

"Intelligent" as if everything we've said is ignorant nonsense? While Camaro's post was intelligent and well thought out, it does not take away from the fact you have done a lot of "assuming" in this thread. Maybe, just maybe if you asked direct and honest questions instead of acting like a know-it-all listing the classes you have "voluntarily" taken (as if this proves anything) or calling people "suckers" the responses and this discussion would have been more informative. You cannot put people on the defensive and not expect the same in return.

In part, yes.. but not necessarily. While I cannot speak for anyone else, I've tried to be as general as possible in my responses. In many cases, the same that can be argued for a $10k coin can be argued for a few hundred dollar coin.

With all due respect, the reason (I think) this thread has become heated is because some of us do not take kindly to the childish name calling and/or certain people bashing something they admittedly know little about. Some of us (and I do believe you are included) take this seriously, each for our own reasons, but once you get into even the inexpensive CAC-level coins, we start talking money. When people start making off-the-cuff remarks or stating personal opinions as facts, it has the potential to cost others money, especially anyone reading this trying to form an educated opinion. Take the OP as an example.. if he were to assume certain posters know what they are talking about and decided against perusing a CAC submission, he would most likely be leaving money on the table if the coin were to pass. Why should he possibly lose money because certain people wish to act like children? While we can discuss or argue amongst ourselves, there are people who read this who are searching for sound advice (risky, yes, but true). While I do respect the personal opinions of others regardless of if they like CAC or not, some level of consideration should be made for those who have not yet formed their own. It's easy to talk smack when its not your own money at stake. Just my two cents..

 

:dead-horse:

No, of course not. However, many of the responses have merely tried to discredit me without addressing any of the valid points I've made. CamaroDMD's was the obvious exception, and I applaud him for it.

I'm not the only one. Looking at your post above I see no less than three false assumptions about what I've said or what I think. But at least I'm willing to admit where I was wrong and I've put forth an honest effort to make amends.

 

I'm telling ya, just let it go already.

 

I thought I did already. :smile

 

Really?

 

You should let go of others letting it go.

 

I'll let go if you will. You first!

 

lol.

 

No less than three? Its hard to believe this considering only one short paragraph was in direct response to anything you said. Or could it be that you (again) are taking a generalized statement personally?

So you applauded him just as I did you right before you decided to start calling people "suckers" again? I see... sorry but no one has tried to discredit you.. you did so yourself.

Here... somewhere out there someone is paying too much for a stickered coin and is being a sucker. Credit given and "valid" point addressed.


Now that you have what you wanted, maybe you can finally stop..... :dead-horse:

 

Guys, stop bickering. Either discuss the topic civilly or don't discuss it at all. One more uncivil post and I will end this.

 

The Rules of Fight Club.





1st RULE: You do not talk about FIGHT CLUB.2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about FIGHT CLUB.
3rd RULE: If someone says "stop" or goes limp, taps out the fight is over.
4th RULE: Only two guys to a fight.
5th RULE: One fight at a time.
6th RULE: No shirts, no shoes.
7th RULE: Fights will go on as long as they have to.
8th RULE: If this is your first night at FIGHT CLUB, you HAVE to fight.


** note--this is intended humorously. Please can we get back to something we all love here--COINS!****

 

I managed just fine before CAC.
Since I joined CAC I'm even doing better......thanks !!!....:thumb: