"CAC" sticker? Is this necessary, or should I pursue one?

How does one submit to them. My understanding is their enrollment is currently closed. I assume one would have to find a dealer to submit for the coin.

Edited...I was wrong about my next statement. :rolling:

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Just find a dealer or member willing to sub for you. Its not a big deal and can be invoiced to be shipped back to you instead of the submitter, so technically all you would need is someone's number (and permission).

 

Wow. I believe this subject has been answered for me. I'll probably see if I can just get a sheet of those stickers and call it a day. JK, but seriously I think I may send it in just to boost the final sales figure.

Also I think coin collecting may be a genetic thing. The more I get into going through these coins, the more I find myself wanting to keep them.

Anyways thank you everyone for your viewpoints. It seems it is worth it if you're selling and not so much of a concern if you already love your coin.

I appreciate the advice!
-JP

 

I bet you could get them made in China pretty easily. They don't seem to have much respect for copyright laws...

 

So, I'm a "sucker" because, apparently unlike you, I care about the resale value of my coins and believe the CAC sticker adds value to prospective buyers?

Really?

 

To a certain extent, yes.

You pay more for a CAC coin because you know that someone else will be willing to pay more for that coin too. In the end, it's the same coin as it would have been if it was only graded once, or not graded at all.

Isn't it standard practice at NGC and PCGS to have no less than three graders look at each coin they grade? So, in effect, you aren't getting a second opinion, but a fourth opinion.

I feel the same way about extended warranties. Sure, they might give you a little peace of mind, but you're paying more in the long run than you would if you rolled the dice and just repaired it if it actually broke.

But, if you continue reading the thread, you'll see where I admit that it might make good business sense to get the CAC sticker since it doesn't seem to take as long or cost as much as I had originally thought. But again, that's only because there are people willing to pay more for them... :rollling:

 

I keep seeing people say that, but that is not always true. While some dealers may charge a premium for a coin with a sticker - not all do. Heck - some charge more for a toned coin. Then depending on when and how you sell you may not recover your costs(sticker or no sticker) - no matter how you bought a coin.

I think one of the things you should try is selling a few coins - going through the process is very enlightening. I think you will find raw coins to vary considerable more than graded coins. So if you take a $100 coin crack it out and auction it you would get an idea of what people think. Just a suggestion.

 

That hole you are digging yourself is getting pretty deep. First, as others have already stated, the turnaround time of the CAC is days/weeks, not months. Second, I don't think you have ever held a $10K coin much less tried to sell one on E-Bay so I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. E-Bay listing fees for someone with an E-Bay store is $0.20/month. I would gladly pay $0.40 to increase my revenue by another $1K minus fees. Your optimism about how easily you can sell a $9K coin on E-Bay is unfounded IMO.

When you say that the CAC is worthless, you should have added "to me because I don't collect expensive coins with large monetary spreads for incremental grades". The fact is that the CAC provides very cheap insurance to buyers looking to buy expensive coins, allows buyers to be more confident when bidding on auction material sight unseen from only photos, and enables sellers to maximize the price of their coins by separating them from the low end coins that have suppressed prices as a result of gradeflation.

What I don't understand is the obsession by collectors who have never used the service as either a buyer or seller to bash the CAC unmercifully. Are you comfortable with the possibility that someone who follows your advice will cost themselves money because they assumed you knew what you are talking about even though you were just ranting?

 

I'm not digging anymore. I'm simply standing in the hole I've already dug since I've already amended my stance on that.

True, I've never tried to sell a $10K coin on FeeBay, nor do I even own one. Sure, I've held one and wondered to myself why on earth a person would pay $10K for it based on numismatic value alone. However, I don't quite understand what you're getting at with the listing fees being $0.20/month and paying $0.40 to increase your revenue by another $1K. Was that ever part of the discussion? Not trying to start yet another argument, just wondering...

Or, I suppose I could have said "in a perfect world, having three separate graders examine and concur on the grade would be more than sufficient and having it graded by yet another person would be unnecessary."

In the end, I have admitted the CAC sticker does seem to add value to coins because there are people who are willing to pay more for coins that have them, and because it doesn't seem to take as long or cost as much as I had originally thought.

 

And I thought you were actually starting to get it. In a previous post I made it clear you should take your own advice, yet here we are again. Just because you say that you might be wrong or that CAC might make business sense, it means nothing because you clearly have not been there and are making simple assumptions. I may not know you, but I've a strong feeling that if I were to crack five gennied (not for obvious reasons) coins and five graded, you would not be able to tell me with any level of certainty, which were which and why. I also doubt you would be able to given an educated opinion as to an A, B, or C example while still in the slab - something that "worthless" CAC could help someone like you to do, but no... they nothing but a marketing schtick for suckers, right? As I said before, this is a common scenario with the people who constantly knock TPGs and/or CAC. Again, the biggest suckers are the ones who think they know it all. The TPGs and CAC set the standards of this business, not know it all collectors. Oh, and please don't bring the business aspect into this unless you have lived it.

Well said, Lehigh. Unfortunately, I do not think any of this is sinking in, so he might as well just sit in his hole. What is that old saying about leading a horse to water......

 

1. It's common to see that a given TPG grade contains a range of accurately-graded coins. MS-64 "A" which is just barely a 64 might have less eye appeal or a little more rub than MS-64 "B", which is just not quite a 65. Lay out a dozen coins of the same grade, same TPG and you will be able to pick out some that are nicer than the others. That's just the way it is.
2. A CAC sticker works the same way a "+" designation by the TPG, saying that it's better than average for its grade.
3. People are more comfortable remotely buying or paying a little more for that extra designation/assurance.

 

These are your words from a previous post in this thread.

I was merely pointing out that if you told any dealer that if they held a coin for 2 months they could make an additional $1K, they would take that deal in a heartbeat. Especially on E-Bay since the listing fees are only $0.20/month. BTW, if one of my BIN coins sells in 7 days, I firmly believe that I left money on the table.

Again, you don't know what you are talking about. The TPG graders do not always concur on the grade of the coin. In fact, it is common to have them disagree on the grade and the finalizer makes the decision regarding the final grade. But when you buy an MS64 coin, you will have no idea that one of the graders thought it should have been an MS65. The CAC sticker tells dealers and collectors that the coin is solid for the assigned grade and that is the reason they are willing to pay more money, people pay for quality. Since you don't collect graded coins, I don't expect you to understand gradeflation and what it has done to the coin market.

Be careful, you keep digging and you are going to end up in China.

 

Doesn't PCGS, for example, always take the lowest grade from the group? That is, if in a group of 3, two think it's MS-65 but one says MS-64, it gets an MS-64?

 

No.

There are 3 graders who look at the same coin. The first 2 graders make their opinion, and neither of those two know what the other's opinion is.

Only the 3rd grader knows what the first two graded the coin and if the 3rd grader agrees with the first two, that's the final grade. If he/she doesn't agree, or there is no consensus of all three, it's re-graded before a final grade is assigned.

 

A CAC sticker does not work the same way as a "+" designation. CAC will sticker "A" and "B" coins but not "C" coins within a certain grade. A CAC sticker means the coin is at least solid for the grade.

See FAQ #5: http://www.caccoin.com/faqs/

However, I don't know what a CAC sticker represents on a coin with a "+" grade. Can someone answer this?

 

From NGC's site:
"NGC assigns a to coins at the high end of their assigned grade, approaching the quality requirements for the next grade. In addition to their superior technical merit, coins receiving a plus designation must have above-average eye appeal."

 

And I'm merely pointing out that you don't know much about running a business.

At this point we're both talking about listing a coin on FeeBay for 2 months. You say the cost is $0.20 per month. I disagree.

What you failed to consider is that $0.20/month is not the only expense. You have the cost of the coin to consider as well. That might be $8K on a coin that you're trying to sell for $9-10K. What's your cost of capital? 8%? 10%? At 8% there's a $106 expense in having a $8K coin sitting around for 2 months. You should also consider how much capital you have available. What if you can only borrow $400k? If that single coin represents 2% of the value of your inventory, then you should also add in 2% of your fixed costs for two months when you calculate what those two months are costing you. Let's say you have a coin store and your fixed costs are $3,000 a month. That's an additional $150. So that coin is essentially costing you $256.40 to list on FeeBay for two months. To a business owner, that's a big difference. $0.40 vs $256.40.

How does it feel to be off by 64,100%?

But again, that's not what we're talking about anymore. Now I understand it probably only takes a few weeks. So most of this is just my explaining what I was thinking then, not necessarily now. If you can get the coin back in three weeks, if it costs at most $100 (including shipping and insurance) to have it stickered, if you're sure it will sticker, and if with the sticker you can sell the coin for an additional $1k, then it does make business sense to do so.

Those are the reasons I'm saying it "might" make sense to get it stickered, because those are a lot of ifs.

I might not be in the business of buying and selling $10K coins, in fact I will very likely never buy a coin that costs $10K unless it's value is based purely on PM content. But I do know business. (Time value of money, net present value, cost of capital, etc) With the assumptions I was making before, it didn't make any sense to have a coin stickered. I have since been educated and have changed my stance to it might make sense for some people in certain circumstances.

 

Guys, this thread is starting to get a little hostile. It's clear that some people here think that CAC is worth having and some don't. We are each entitled to our opinions, but lets keep it civil. Consider this a warning to play nice.

 

Sorry, I brought it in the post above. Simply because I don't run a coin store does not mean I don't know how to run a business. You might try climbing down from your high horse and admitting that someone who doesn't run a coin store knows a thing or two about business.

What a tough crowd. I have admitted I was wrong. I have changed my stance.

I do not claim to be a know it all on grading, yet you guys repeatedly accuse me of being one. I never said I can reliably tell the difference between MS64 and MS65 on a coin, but I do believe that on most graded coins, the original grade from a reputable TPG should be sufficient. At least I would be willing to take their word for it, especially if there were very detailed images of the coin available, or if I could examine it in person. Those would mean as much to me as the CAC sticker.

 

My apologies. I'm trying my best, but this is a tough crowd!