CAC & Plus grade wackiness

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by C-B-D, Dec 3, 2013.

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  1. Mojavedave

    Mojavedave Senior Member

    It's all about money.
     
    Mojavedave, Dec 4, 2013
    #21 + Quote Reply
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  3. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    Although my understanding of the gold bean was slightly wrong...my point still stands, and based on what you said I think you feel the same way. I bolded that point. From what I have seen, gold bean coins often sell for FAR more than the next grade's value. That's the issue I have with them. The coin itself isn't worth it.
     
    CamaroDMD, Dec 4, 2013
    #22 + Quote Reply
    C-B-D likes this.
  4. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    Yep I agree whole heartedly . The only time I wouldn't is if the coin was undergraded by 2 pts , which is quite rare .
     
    rzage, Dec 5, 2013
    #23 + Quote Reply
  5. WLH22

    WLH22 Well-Known Member

    Here is the thing I don't understand in the discussion. A coins price should be dictated by the quality of the coin and not a guide or price list. With or without a green bean a coin of superior quality for the grade should sell at a premium. The guide prices are formed from auction results. Those auctions include low quality examples at times. Those low ball sales bring overall prices down periodically.

    If you don't like the price a person is asking don't buy the coin. The seller is most likely asking a premium for a beaned coin because they feel it is a high quality coin. There is always a demand for quality. If you really want the better coin then it will cost you more. If not, then just find another one (with or without a sticker). If you don't like the coin as much as the higher priced coin then don't complain about the price difference. It is all about demand for quality now. In my book no two coins should sell for the same price anyway.
     
    WLH22, Dec 5, 2013
    #24 + Quote Reply
    geekpryde likes this.
  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    And neither are most of the ones with the green sticker. And that's my point.

    No, they aren't. But just like you, a lot of people do think they are.
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 5, 2013
    #25 + Quote Reply
  7. definer

    definer definitely....! LOL

    Doug, where do the Guide Prices come from?
     
    definer, Dec 5, 2013
    #26 + Quote Reply
  8. Amanda Varner

    Amanda Varner Well-Known Member

    This is the first I'm hearing of CAC stickering "average for the grade" coins. I was always under the impression that CAC would only give the bean to A-grade coins, but I just rummaged on their site and you are indeed correct. CAC will sticker A and B level coins for a grade. The more you know. :oops:
     
    Amanda Varner, Dec 5, 2013
    #27 + Quote Reply
  9. geekpryde

    geekpryde Husband and Father Moderator

    Well, I buy affordable CAC coins with almost no sticker premium. So for the patient, I can buy "solid for the grade" or "above average for the grade" coins for the same or about the same money as non-stickered coins. Just because people ask nutty prices, and other people pay nutty prices, doesn't mean that every CAC coin out there is overpriced.

    I don't know why people don't just skip the "Guides" and go right to the horses mouth: auctions prices realized. For instance, auction history available at www.ha.com.

    When I buy any coin, and mostly that means CAC coins, I always consult ha.com. Some of those prices are for CAC coins, but most are not. So I know what a reasonable price is for a given coin.

    There are nicely priced CAC coins out there, people just need to be patient, as with most things in life.
     
    geekpryde, Dec 5, 2013
    #28 + Quote Reply
  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    And that is exactly what you should do.

    Nor did I say that every one was overpriced. I am saying that you should not be one of the "nutty people".
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 5, 2013
    #29 + Quote Reply
  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Each one is somewhat different, but if you look every price guide will tell you what they base their listed prices on. Many of them have a list of dealers that they contact and they ask those specific dealers what they are asking for each specific coin in each specific grade. And typically the prices they put in their guides are the highest prices given to them from among those dealers.

    For example, Numismedia says -

    The pricing information we report comes from all over the numismatic market including many reliable dealers known for their unbiased market knowledge and information.

    It's right on their front page - http://www.numismedia.com/

    I've said this many times before, price guides are published for one reason, to get you the customer to buy them. It doesn't matter if the guide comes in a magazine or if it is a stand alone product, the people publishing that price guide are in business. And just like any business they have one and only one purpose - to make money. And they know that their customers want to see high prices listed so they (the customers) feel better about themselves and how much money they are spending on coins.

    They also know that if they published realistic prices, lower prices in other words, that people are not going to buy their price guides because when people see those lower prices they are going to say - these guys don't know what they are talking about ! I just paid twice that for that coin ! I'm not buying this stupid price guide anymore !

    If businesses want to sell their product they have to give their customers what they want. And the people buying the price guides want to feel like what they are doing is correct, that their coins are really worth that much. They want someone else to tell them that their coins are really worth that much.

    If you look on Heritage for example you will see something like this -


    Grade - - 1 Coin World(Coin Values) 2 NumismediaRetail 3 NumismediaWholesale
    4 NumismediaNGC (nmn) 5 NumismediaPCGS (nmp) 6 PCGSPrice Guide 7 PCGS+



    64 --- $79 $66 $60 $60 $92 $98
    65 --- $169 $135 $125 $125 $175 $190
    66 --- $363 $290 $260 $270 $375 $425

    Now why do you think they give you all those different prices and where do you think all those different prices come from ?

    Especially when you consider that the coin in question, and MS65, actually sold for $152 ?
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 5, 2013
    #30 + Quote Reply
    definer likes this.
  12. stewart dandis

    stewart dandis Well-Known Member

    I like CAC, nothing wrong with having two opinions along with mine on expensive rare coins.

    Three opinions.
    1. TPG
    2. CAC
    3. Mine

    I do agree that some BINs are crazy, but you don't have to buy them.
     
    stewart dandis, Dec 5, 2013
    #31 + Quote Reply
  13. mill rat41

    mill rat41 Member

    CAC sticker or not, seems to me the best way to buy coins is to look at as many examples of a particular issue as possible - then buy the best coin for the money. One thing that really struck me at the last large coin show I attended was how nice coins can look. And I don't mean shockingly high graded (ms 68 and higher), but everyday coins in everyday grades - Morgans in MS65, Liberty gold in MS63, ect. One lesson I have learned is to avoid paying strong money for low end coin.
     
    mill rat41, Dec 5, 2013
    #32 + Quote Reply
    Tom B likes this.
  14. bkozak33

    bkozak33 Collector

    So, if a coin is graded AU50, and is actually a AU55 (In CAC'S Eyes) It would get a gold Bean?
     
    bkozak33, Jan 8, 2014
    #33 + Quote Reply
  15. mikem2000

    mikem2000 Lost Cause

    Oh, I don't know, sometimes a 64 coin that is very attractive may very well be worth more than an ugly coin that "technically" is a 65 but not that appealing. It's not just looking the coin up in a price guide you know.

    Here is a coin I just purchased. It grades 66+ and has a CAC sticker. While I didn't pay 67 money for the coin, it was sure a lot more than a straight up 66. I paid a strong premium, and IMHO, it was worth it and I shoud be able to get it back at resale time.

    Purple T1 (1).jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2014
    mikem2000, Jan 8, 2014
    #34 + Quote Reply
  16. Mojavedave

    Mojavedave Senior Member

    You don't need a CAC sticker to tell someone that is one mighty nice looking coin.
    They don't get much higher than MS66 do they ?
     
    Mojavedave, Jan 8, 2014
    #35 + Quote Reply
  17. JPeace$

    JPeace$ Coinaholic

    The green bean that the coin in the holder is either an A or B for that grade and a gold bean means they feel the coin is undergraded. I'm not aware if it means just 1 grade or potentially 2.
     
    JPeace$, Jan 9, 2014
    #36 + Quote Reply
  18. mill rat41

    mill rat41 Member

    Gold beans are given to coins that are obviously, in your face, no doubt about it, undergraded. If they have to him and haw about it, it will get a green bean.
     
    mill rat41, Jan 9, 2014
    #37 + Quote Reply
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