CAC or MAC certification is a fake

Discussion in 'What's it Worth' started by DANIEL HENRIQUEZ, Jul 6, 2022.

  1. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    You literally just copy pasted the exact same response to me on two different posts of mine with a couple added sentences at the start.................
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    DANIEL HENRIQUEZ Active Member

    So, your evidence is that everyone is buying them for more and believing they are more valuable so they are and this validates the sticker on the outside of a sealed, plastic capsule. Furthermore, you state that if John Albanese wasn't able to evaluate or re-grade a coin while in the sealed, plastic capsule, he wouldn't do it. People sell crap, lies and trash all the time and have NO permission to do so ever yet, that doesn't mean any of it is accurate or validated.

    You so called evidence is nothing and John Albanese and his belief he can re-grade a coin while inside a sealed, plastic capsule is now being challenged. Just because people buy them and admire him for his numismatic associations doesn't mean the CAC process or sticker is valid.

    Please submit tangible evidence that can be proven as my statement of you being unable to grade a coin inside the capsule has already been proven by NGC and PCGS which is why when you resubmit graded and encapsulated coins, they are broken open to be able to re-grade effectively and accurately.

    DANIEL HENRIQUEZ Active Member

    I know the difference between the two and they are both fake and apply stickers on the outside of a sealed capsule stating they can re-grade a coin through the capsule which is wrong, incorrect and a bold lie.

    As for what you think I should learn, what is the lesson? Is it that people can put stickers on a capsule and state the coin is worth more and people believe it or that I should be more weak and gullible like those people? Please explain as I use facts and evidence, not just beliefs and fictional stickers.
  5. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Hahaha this has to just be trolling at this point. Well played if you're just bored trolling but if you actually are serious just wow
  6. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    If you're going to rant about CAC, please spend the time to do accurate research. Your posts are filled with inaccurate information you contend are facts. Making significant errors in multiple posts does nothing but kill any credibility you may have.

    You may want to check the following before your next diatribe

    * Remove MAC from your rant. You are correct on this one and nobody is disagreeing. Most collectors have never heard of MAC and those that have know it's the equivalent of a basement slabber. Anyone paying extra for a MAC sticker will be disappointed.

    * How did you come up with the figure that 25% of a coin is obscured by the holder? It's obvious to anyone looking at a slabbed coin that the visible portion is in the high 90%'s. Do you have any calculations to support your "fact". In this case, math talks and wild guesses, hyperbole, and ill-informed opinions walk

    * A green CAC sticker does not mean that a coin would be expected to grade at a higher level. It means the coin is in the middle to top part of the grade range. This is basic fact. With all of the research you claim to have done, how could you miss this? They do have a gold sticker that is used when they feel that the coin should upgrade, but that is only a very low percentage of the stickers they issued

    * The UCAM and FINEST stickers are not CAC products. Once again, you've claimed to do research, but posting "facts" like this really makes one wonder if you know what your doing.
    Dug13 and imrich like this.
  7. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    You can resubmit a coin with the instruction "reholder only at the same or higher grade". The existence of that service indicates that NGC and PCGS, at least, believe it's possible to evaluate a coin without removing it from the holder.

    "You can't evaluate a coin's grade when it's in a slab" is just a spectacularly silly idea.
    wxcoin and Oldhoopster like this.
  8. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    You posted

    Pardon me but, I am posting facts. I have been a numismatist for over 40 years and I can unequivocally state that you cannot grade or re-grade a coin that is encapsulated in plastic unless you break it open and DO NOT perform the process through the plastic.

    Are you serious? I think you're confusing facts with opinions. Do you have any data to support this "unequivocal statement"? Take a minute and think about what you wrote.

    As for what you think I should learn, what is the lesson? Is it that people can put stickers on a capsule and state the coin is worth more and people believe it or that I should be more weak and gullible like those people? Please explain as I use facts and evidence, not just beliefs and fictional stickers.

    You've used very little in the line of facts over your multiple posts. Whether its "can't grade through slabs", "25% of the coin is obscured by the slab" or a CAC sticker = higher grade, you've offered no data, information, or references. I think you need to do some follow up on the difference between facts and opinions. Nothing wrong with offering your opinion, just don't have the audacity to confuse the two
    AdamL likes this.
  9. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982


    This is an example of a fact.

  10. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Just to clarify, a regrade will get cracked out and regraded raw. Reconsideration and crossovers will be graded in the slab and only cracked if they reach the minimum grade otherwise they get sent back in the holder they were submitted in
    imrich likes this.
  11. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    The OP's mind is closed. He can't even except that there is a difference between stickers. I don't see any hope his opinion will ever change.
    Most in this hobby understand that our opinions are sometimes wrong and learn from it. Those that can no longer learn will make many mistakes.
    imrich and Oldhoopster like this.
  12. charley

    charley Well-Known Member


    CAC: 4PG not 3PG.

    With 40 years collecting experience, I would have concluded you know the difference.

    Other than that, reading this Thread has been very enjoyable, and I appreciate the time you dedicated to provide me entertainment.

    I have forwarded your wonderful synopsis of CAC, because I like to share my enjoyment.
    ede1964 likes this.
  13. Kurisu

    Kurisu Supporter! Supporter

    CAC doesn't have the coins in hand when they decide?!
    Please explain?

    Here's John talking about his opinion on toned coins going through CAC.
    -jeffB and Oldhoopster like this.
  14. John Burgess

    John Burgess Well-Known Member

    I don't get it? You don't like CAC or MAC stickered coins?

    Pretty simple.

    You should stop slandering legitimate businesses when you have no evidence to support what you say about them or their services except your own personal opinions for all any of us know, you have your own sticker business and have ulterior motives as to why you keep doing this.

    clearly you can evaluate a coin that is holdered and determine if it's gem for the grade given, if it's spot on, or low quality for the grade given, while it's in the holder and without removing it.
    If this wasn't the case, people wouldn't cherrypick and play the crack out and resubmit game, which clearly they do.

    The CAC sticker is mostly confirming what the submitter already suspected, but wanted another opinion on it. And well, that sticker, it's cheaper than paying to get a coin regraded when in all likelihood, the grading company will stick to their guns on the grade given to it prior, even if it is a superior example against it's peers at that grade.
    charley likes this.
  15. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Of course, nobody can ever know that, since you can't evaluate a coin's grade once it's in a holder. :rolleyes:
  16. John Burgess

    John Burgess Well-Known Member

    But, you can evaluate a coin in the holder and determine if it's up to your standards or not for the grade they gave it. TPG grading is just a third party opinion. I don't know who at PCGS or NGC grades coins or which individual grades my coins, and if they have a hangover 5 days a week or not? LOL I won't trust unnamed people blindly. I can determine if I want to buy a slabbed coin or not just as well as anyone else, and I know me and trust my opinion. For all I know they pick up some guys at home depot in the morning on the way into work. hahaha

    if CAC or MAC wants to charge for their opinion on a coin also after a TPG does their opinion, with a sticker, sure go ahead, more power to ya! Only reason MAC does what it does is because CAC won't do moderns so it leaves an opportunity open for someone else to do it.

    it's a business they provide a service, if you don't like the service, or see a need for it, don't use it. But I have no idea what the point is on bashing a legitimate business for giving people what they want, they are selling reassurance. I don't agree with social media influencers and their business model, but I'm not gonna knock them for getting that money and filling a need for people.
  17. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    That is not quite how it works @ CAC, but close enough for the point you are relaying.

    Re. CAC, sort of, but not exactly.
  18. Kurisu

    Kurisu Supporter! Supporter

    I've sent in MANY coins to PCGS for crossover from NGC and other TPGs...
    PCGS leaves them in the NGC or other slabs until they decide to successfully cross the coin from one slab to another...
    @DANIEL HENRIQUEZ - Meaning, PCGS very regularly grades coins without removing them from the slab.
    Dug13, John Burgess and -jeffB like this.
  19. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    You're confusing them with QA. QA is the one that only does moderns and had a chance of being wildly successful but made a couple fatal mistakes. Aside from the reputation of who works there, the thing CAC understands that apparently some of these other stickers dont is that collectors ultimately decides the level of demand for a product. Dealers would rather just hype their own inventory raw, but if collectors want something they do what the market shows they have to do. CAC doesnt charge collectors for coins that fail to sticker which is something the others have never done and they were more expensive from the start. QA was never going to matter on a 2020 silver proof, but it certainly could have been in high demand for high end business strikes, or pretty much anything from the 70-90s. Its hard to start gaining traction though after being around for a number of years gaining very little traction
    Kurisu and John Burgess like this.
  20. Col_Fury

    Col_Fury Member


    DANIEL HENRIQUEZ Active Member

    EXACTLY! So what is the issue here? Are you and everyone afraid of sending in your coins to be "cracked" and regraded? So, you decide to have some company put a sticker on the outside of the sealed slab and this is supposed to be taken as gospel? Which I reiterate, you can't grade a coin effectively through a slab, bar none! And any person that believes he can, I wish to challenge them as it can't be done. If you are so confident in the CAC sticker, why are you so adamant at sending them in to be "cracked" and regraded? Oh yes, no one trusts NGC or PCGS but, you trust someone that puts stickers on the outside of sealed slabs? You need to record yourselves saying this and then listen to it. I am laughing at this.
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