CAC Coins

Gold has been "messed with" before we were born. AFAIK (Is this used for as far as I know?) the newest (not new anymore) alterations and repairs are done w/lasers - even on Proofs! I called a jeweler who uses lasers in his practice and he said he would show me what it does to a coin's surface. This was several months ago but I've been too busy to go. Figure his results (if as good as I've seen on two $3 proofs) would make for a great article in the Numismatist magazine.

Also, I must be missing something here. I thought all a Green CAC sticker signified was that the company AGREED with the TPGS grade. I know the sticker usually adds "perceived" extra value as it did cost the seller extra $. Probably extra insurance and peace of mind for those who cannot grade. You all know them. They ask everyone in sight about a coin already slabbed before they'll buy it There are plenty of correctly graded coins in slabs with no "bean" to go around for less money.

 

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Technically a bean is supposed to to be a kind of dealer shorthand for bulk puchases. It's mean to say "hey dealer, you don't have to look at me, you can trust what my label says." the gold bean means they think the tpg got it way wrong and undergraded it... oh and clear beans mean undergraded

 

IMO, worth 3-4% max.

 

Here is a "no eye appeal" CAC coin. I didn't pay any premium for this coin.

 

You might want to talk to John Albanese about that.

 

in the spirit of transparency I started this thread because I find TPGs, CAC, etc. and the coin market are interesting to discuss. We love coins but value (not alwqys easy to define) does come into play when we look at our coins.
I think CAC is a good thing for the industry, and I believe John Albanese is doing an admirable job in a subjective non-scientific field.

That being said, that Barber half does not jump out at me lol

 

I run hot and cold. Buy more as a dealer now. Went on a tear at last months show as I was selling. Been too involved with my girlfriend the last month and a half to look and I haven't been working 8O hours a week either so I don't have the same income lately and this is a slow time of year

 

If you do visit this jeweler, I'd love to hear about the results.

CAC believes there are 3 "tiers" in each grade: A, B & C. It means just what you would think, the A coins are the top of the grade and close to the next, but not quite, B is average for the grade and C, which could mean a few things: over graded or just at the bottom range of that grade. CAC will sticker A & B coins only. So even a green bean might mean the coin in the holder is average for the grade.

I think CAC is very clear in their mission statement posted on their site. Based on JA's reputation, they have flourished in the market. Others are trying to follow this lead. The only other "sticker" I give any credence to is Rick Snow's "Eagle Eye".

Like I said earlier, I use CAC for certain assurances, but I don't depend on them in determining whether I add the coin to my collection. They are just one consideration in my process.

 

What are your thoughts on QA?

 

If that one mark on the cheek is more a graze than a scratch, you could be looking at a technical 64 or 65 there having been downgraded for ugly. This one's pricey in this range, tripling from 63 to 65, and the grader might not have wanted to create wealth with such a homely coin. Were I a grader, I'd strongly consider it. Grading is subjective, after all.

 

That's what I thought, the green bean means the coin is OK for the grade.

 

Yes that's what green means, solid for the grade, so a dealer can pay greysheet without looking at it. Or at least that's what it was supposed to be for before the beans themselves became so popular with collectors that they started adding big premiums to the coins with a bean as opposed to without.

 

I am taking a TPGS Finalizer when we go and I plan to write about it. Just so little time and so much to do!

 

But collectors have always been paying big premiums for the upper tier of the grade for coins. If you or anyone thinks that a low end 65 vs a high end 65 are worth the same amount, the collection will be filled with mostly sub par coins

 

I don't know much about them. I believe they are trying to be the CAC of modern coins, is that correct?

 

I guess when I hear "OK for the grade" that's a "B" coin. Don't forget about the "A" coin too. I might just be slicing your comments thinner than intended.

 

There's a subtle but important difference included here. "OK" in this context is old-school, satisfying stricter standards than market grading has nudged things in the last 20 years. Beans are as much an attempt to strip the slab away (from the perceptions of educated collectors) as they are to reinforce it in the minds of those so oriented.

I don't want the Bean to tell me the grade on the slab is righteous; I want the Bean to tell me the slab isn't necessary in this case. Maybe it's just me but that's an important distinction.

 

I'm not sure I follow you in your last paragraph. I think I agree, but can you expand your thoughts a little bit more?

 

In IMHO beans are an excellent marketing tool that helps keep the standards tight while it makes lots of money for the "Beanies" both CAC and the people who sell them. Have you guys noticed all the new "stickers" on slabs? Remember when a tiny, self-adhesive was applied with the ink notation "PQ?" I know, that's not the same thing as a green bean. Anyway, all this is great free advertising for CAC.

 

All a slab should be is a way to allow you to buy a coin you can trust without necessarily seeing it first, and a grade doesn't exist until you believe it exists. All this is merely a way of getting coins into your hands which are more likely to be the one you expected. Whether there's a slab or not, whether the grade is "right" or not, none of it's real until it's in your hands and you agree with it, because numismatics is about your opinion of your coins, not theirs. A slab is only a more efficient delivery system to me, because I feel it my responsibility to be able to accurately evaluate what's in it, or I wouldn't be buying the darn thing.

A strong case can be made that, in this day and age of high-resolution digital imagery, TPG's are far less important than they used to be. I'm unafraid to sell raw coins based on my own images. "Sight-unseen" is not the governing term it once was in numismatics, when dealers sold to the public from lists. In fact, it's a vanishing breed.

Assuming, of course, that we never forget our first mission with this stuff is to be able to stand on our own two feet. And that's why I like to view slabs as if they didn't exist.