CAC Coins

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by GoldenLager, Dec 16, 2015.

  1. Cascade

    Cascade CAC Variety Nerd

    Because people pay it guys. If people didn't pay these premiums for green and gold beans the market wouldn't exist. Sure, maybe his buyback guarantee sets the market somewhat but that's just good company marking and strategy. The bottom line is people pay the premiums so sellers price their goods accordingly... If I can wrap dog crap and put a certain sticker on it that makes it worth $100.. because people are paying $100 for a wrapped piece of dog crap with a certain sticker.. Guess what, I would be selling wrapped dog crap with stickers happily and so would a lot of other people
     
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  3. dwhiz

    dwhiz Collector Supporter

    I don't don't buy coins because they have a sticker or a special label. I did buy one that was signed by Steve Carlton
    The bacon label is my own special sticker that I came up with just for fun.
    Thanks for asking
     
  4. treylxapi47

    treylxapi47 Well-Known Member Dealer

    Youre thinking of @geekpryde i believe. Think it was him working on the CAC Type Set.

    Hows that coming, btw @geekpryde?
     
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  5. JPeace$

    JPeace$ Coinaholic

    Trey, I wouldn't even want that one for $350. Feel lucky. IMO, you are right on with your logic concerning the Gold Bean. No more than 1 point. The eBay sellers think Gold Bean = 4 point bump (based on many of their prices). Slight exaggeration on my part, but not much.

    I have an Arrows and Rays search on eBay and get the e-mail updates. There's not been one that I was either willing to pay the asking price or liked it enough to add to my collection.
     
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  6. JPeace$

    JPeace$ Coinaholic

    My apologies Dwhiz. @treylxapi47 was correct, I was thinking of Geekpryde. I wasn't trying to offend. BTW, I liked that Carlton coin.

    You should market your bacon sticker...make it scratch and sniff. Who doesn't like bacon?
     
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  7. JPeace$

    JPeace$ Coinaholic

    I see why many CAC coins bring a premium. I tried to explain it in my earlier e-mail. I will pay a premium for an "A" coin. CAC tries to identify both B and A coins vs. C for the grade.

    I just don't get some of the premiums people will pay.
     
  8. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    The thing is not that the problem exists - it does - or that the TPG's are poor at catching it - they're just as good as anyone. The thing is, the very best talents in coin doctoring are working in gold. They're good. As another layer of protection, CAC isn't necessarily imperative but it sure is reassuring that another pro has had a look.

    Not that it, or anything else mentioned here, justifies the foaming-at-the-mouth prices some CAC coins bring. I personally agree with John Albanese that - to an extent - the midgrade market has been depressed somewhat over the last couple decades by dogs in slabs. MS65's ought to be a bit scarcer than they are (generalization), and maybe a bit more valuable as a result.

    But not moon money.
     
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  9. JPeace$

    JPeace$ Coinaholic

  10. GoldenLager

    GoldenLager New Member

    I like the point above about how TPGs are like real estate brokers, with vast market knowledge and data (esp photos) and price histories to estimate a coins condition and hence value.

    And while I realize mistakes do happen, i dont like the idea they would miss many "doctoring" issues. Ive definitely had many Details grades, especially in my earlier collecting days. Though Ive used those experiences and knowledge to improve my ability to select quality coins.

    I think CAC is a really valuable service. The coin market obviously thinks so, as the premiums are the evidence.

    Obviously lots of things come into play when deciding what to buy. I do like that extra security the green bean gives me, its sort of like going to another doctor (and a real good one!).

    What puzzles me a bit though is, if the bean indicates "solid for the grade", would that imply most any non-damaged non-doctored coin could get a green bean if given a low enough grade?

    Not sure if this would be advisable under any circumstances, its just hypothetical.
     
  11. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    Your hypothetical makes some sense. I'm interested to hear others on that.
     
  12. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Yes, absolutely, and no reason why not. A coin which isn't really worthy at MS64 might be a rather nice MS63 indeed.

    I doubt CAC planned on the end-buyer price hype. What they're doing just got vastly overestimated by the market.
     
  13. JPeace$

    JPeace$ Coinaholic

    @GoldenLager , I believe the CAC sticker means it's an "A" or "B" coin for the grade. If my understanding is correct, CAC believes there are A, B & C level coins in each grade. Those that receive the Gold Bean are one point under-graded or possibly more.
     
  14. brg5658

    brg5658 Well-Known Member

  15. GoldenLager

    GoldenLager New Member

    The search feature does not allow searches on just "cac"

    Please suggest search criteria or provide links to prior threads
    Thank you
     
  16. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    Some of the coins I regularly collect are mint state scarce date St. Gaudens Double Eagles. I was at a coin show last week-end where a dealer had a couple cac scarce date St. Gaudens. I looked at the NGC MS62 coins which shouldn't have graded MS61 with the severe bag marking and rub. I asked him what premium he gets with the "bean". He said a 10% premium is regularly requested and received. The premium on the each of the 2 coins was $2000. I've dealt with him for decades, and knew that he wasn't exaggerating. I told him I may be able to deliver some "bargains"

    I purchased another scarce undergraded date from him that I knew with proper "conservation" should realize a 2 grade advance. It will soon go to PCGS, and then to CAC with several other coins. CAC appears to be a "cash cow" for many dealers, but from my experience they generally aren't a representation of above average grade coins.

    JMHO
     
  17. treylxapi47

    treylxapi47 Well-Known Member Dealer

    I know in my series that I focus on, I would tend to say that I am rather unimpressed with the Green Beaned coins that I see and regularly pass them by without much of a second glance.

    I actually maintain a search for CAC coins inside my selected series and regularly see coins that I think are ugly and wouldn't waste my money in.

    I think there are 2 major conflicts at play with regards to CAC.

    Their overzealous need to sticker 'strictly original' coins even when they are butt ugly. Sure it may meet all of the technical factors, but the eye appeal can be lacking.

    So for example 1 say you have a nice original coin, never tampered with, but the luster has become muted and the coin has lost its 'pop' due to the overly natural skin on the surface. It's original and technically sound for the grade, but eye appeal sits at about a 3.5(10).

    Example 2 is when you have original toning, and even sometimes paired with a thick, natural skin that is just plain unattractive. Again meeting all of the technical factors, but eye appeal being about 4(10).

    I see this happen quite often in the seated quarters. And maybe the nicer CAC coins are just being hoarded tightly, because the only real nice CAC seated quarters I find are usually the higher grade coins and are typically easy to tell are solid for the assigned grade.

    I mainly focus on AU quarters though, so my observations also might be skewed a bit due to the nature of the coins I look for.
     
  18. geekpryde

    geekpryde Husband and Father Moderator

    yes, that is me. Haven't bought a coin in 12 months! :singing: Sold a few coins recently, but my CAC set is mostly intact. We'll see what 2016 brings, maybe a new some purchases, maybe not.
     
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  19. JPeace$

    JPeace$ Coinaholic

    @geekpryde , no coin in 12 months!!! Outrage...lol. Strong discipline.

    The only way I could achieve that is if I were to stop viewing the coin auctions....
     
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  20. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    I would have to be in solitary confinement.:woot:
     
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  21. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    I disagree with that sentiment. Forums like this are very transitory; there are always new members like yourself coming and going. Conversations need to be repeated, not exhumed from the past. Fresh words need to be spoken; opinions change and information broadens. People want to be addressed individually and that's understandable.

    Specifically to this thread, the pricing relationships of CAC coins might have changed greatly in the last couple years if, for instance, more examples have been certified and diluted the rarity pool.

    I just bought my first new coin since January 2013. Imagine how I feel. :D
     
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