CAC coin Premium

You can get any coin in any holder CACed. All you need to do is first get it validated by, and into a top tier (i.e. NGC or PCGS) slab. If you are so confident in your grading, what's the problem?

I did this with many slabbed coins from ACG to PCGS. I don't personally submit my coins to NGC or PCGS because I know of, and have proven for actions, that there's a bias by these firms, dependent upon past purchases from same. Only a couple times have I submitted a coin, as a valuable Gold ACG slabbed coin in its holder, by an established B&M dealer.

The ACG hate bias was very evident, such that when reported here, a prominent poster stated: "they wouldn't do that". I've also saved that to allow proper testimony about TPG bias.

Buy whatever you like, but coin collectors also have biases, submit raw to NGC or PCGS before submitting to CAC.

With the current "Market Grading" by TPG, you may be surprised in the results of your submission.

JMHO

 

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C-B-D, posted: "Faster and cheaper but also less accurate IMO. None are even close to perfect, nor consistent. But there’s a difference. For example:

View attachment 1408254 View attachment 1408255

This is the same coin. All I did was crack and resubmit to NGC. Personally I graded it 58/61 when I bought it."

I agree with you. The coin is a very attractive AU-58. It is NOT MS. However, AU coins are commonly graded MS-61, MS-62, and on occasionally higher by the TPGS. This is done mostly to indicate the coin's eye appeal or value.

Now to the important point. We can find examples of under graded and over graded coins from EVERY TPGS.

So slapping examples as this on a thread to make a point about under graded is WORTHLESS IMO because we could start a very long and pointless thread.

BTW, ANACS and ICG probably have more coins conservatively graded or "detailed" for problems than the "BIG two."

One more thing to consider with that FE. ANACS may have NET GRADED it for something we don't see. That's why Net grading is DUMB, STUPID, and CONFUSING. Grading a coin is EXTREMELY simple until YOU TRY TO PLACE A VALUE ON IT.

 

Question, @C-B-D, @Insider, anyone, what % of this coin has undamaged luster?

 

The entire coin is reflecting light (luster). It appears to have original Mint luster behind the letters and next to the relief. The dark fields do not.

Furthermore, the reverse is not being shown. So all my specific comments on that coin are based on the obverse image.

 

I shipped it to DLRC. It’ll be at auction in a week or so, with their pics.

 

Since Anacs and ICG are accepted by eBay and GC there is really no reason for CAC not to review these. They are missing out on revenue so what’s keeping them?

 

The only reason a CAC sticker would have a premium wolf be the CAC bid in the CDN. The sticker assigned by him indicates its an A or B coin in opinion of CAC - C coins in grade range don’t get the sticker. Now certainly really PQ coins can be bid up much higher in auction bid war.

Many non CAC coins are A or B coins. A coin may be a C coin but be properly graded / TPG grade on holder. Saying non CAC coins not properly graded an untrue / incorrect statement. Take it up with the TPG if you don’t think they are properly graded lol.

 

Stickering coins isnt their revenue driver. Buying and selling them is. Theyll even admit in interviews they never wanted or thought theyd be stickering coins that are like a 100 dollars but collector demand has caused that to happen. Now they've raised their prices a couple times to try and discourage that which has worked to an extent.

When they started though they were really meant for expensive coins like 4 figures and up where ANACS and ICG coins will sell at a discount and often times an extreme discount especially as the coin gets more expensive unless its just bullion. Theres a CAC value to the collector at lower price points than that but that's what they were started for. What are they supposed to do have a PCGS/NGC price guide, then an ANACS price guide, then an ICG price guide?

 

Well there is CW Trends and CPG which is based on CDN bid.

No I don’t think any Anacs or ICG pg needed. My Anacs and ICG US matl I just input into the Pcgs / CF inventory app and use that.

I don’t believe in discounting ANACS, ICG matl bc of holder but may have lower price on it bc of lower cost.

Many years ago I had a 1917 T1 Standing Lib 25c in ANACS 63 holder. It was super wellstruck, lustrous, PQ. This one bozo jerk guy came up to my table at a show asked price then said in a snotty way “don’t you discount ANACS coins.” I said “there is no reason why I should (laughing).” Was about tell him shove it. A few months later I sent it to NGC and it got 64.

 

This whole interaction is why dealers often have a bad reputation. And it pits collectors and dealers against one another. Consider changing your responses. Then maybe he’ll change his.

 

By sending it to NGC you just essentially admitted he was right especially after you sat on it for months at "your price".

 

Collector didn't even do anything wrong from how that was described. It's not only reasonable but smart to understand the market prices for different services and if someone wants to be snotty towards someone for it there's plenty of other tables at a show

 

Well he edited his comment way down. To see more expand my quote above. The only thing the collector could’ve done better is keep the “your competition has it cheaper over there” comment to himself.

 

Yea I don't disagre with that, but from the description it would have been tempting to have a chirp like that with how it was described. To be fair part of being a dealer at a show is being a salesman. It's one thing to be short with people just spamming you on ebay looking for low prices and see what sticks, but someone should be able to explain why something is better at a table at a show and justify their price.

 

I'm an individual who has been buying coins which meet my technical grading established over 70 years of working in coin shops and buying/selling slabbed coins since their origination. I will buy coins meeting my standards regardless of the slabber TPG name. For years I've removed the Gold coins from their slabs, and submitted them through established dealers to NGC and PCGS. I've kept hundreds of the original slabs, and the resulting coins that were "top tier TPG" slabbed. I usually submit an original NGC coin to PCGS, and vice-versa.

The majority of the time the "top tier" coins will not receive the original TPGs' grade. Seldom will the other slabbed coins (e.g. ACG, ANACS, ICG, PCI, SEGS, ....) meet their original slab grade, but occasionally they will receive a higher "top tier TPG" grade, and as in the independent grading study of 50 years past, some are more predictably reliable.

I find your argument ludicrous, as the average "top tier TPG" graded coin can't receive a "bean", the 2 you recommend are far less likely to receive same, and would possibly overwhelm a valuable service.

If you believe a 2nd? tier TPG graded coin is undergraded, submit same to the 1st tier TPGs.

However, I've found when a coin is too perfect, it may receive a "details" rating, and be graded upon re-submission to the other TPG.

This has been a very expensive/long learning process, but I believe warranted in order to determine/record truths.

JMHO

 

Interesting back and forth; to the OP's posted question "What is the most premium you would pay (or paid) for a CAC Coin?" my answer is still "NONE"...

 

Some low baller tire kicker trash who trying rip me is right lol - what universe u in?

 

Wow about 60 pct say zero premium (poll).

 

Whyd you sit on something for months before submitting to a first tier TPG? Someone understanding the price differences doesn’t make them trash

 

I never thought about what would be the "base" for evaluating a premium paid/offered on a CACed coin, so I selected a coin on eBay which definitely meets my grading criteria. It also has a "green bean" which I never viewed as assembled, just the coin.

The coin is a Civil War $1 Gold coin in a NGC MS63 holder.

I looked at previous and current sales in different venues.
I then established my offer price, and then made my offer.

I have the current CAC RARE COIN MARKET REVIEW publication. My premium to be paid if offer is accepted is calculated at ~11.5% above C.D.N. stated value for the coin.

My offer was what I believe is a fair price slightly more than the "with tax" price I will need to pay eBay, and slightly less than dealer want price. My offer discount of ~7% was less than the tax/shipping for the coin.

JMHO