CAC census - online !

I thought he was advocating a data base that would list ID numbers of coins that had received stickers AND those which had failed to receive stickers.

 

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The way his post was phrased gave me the impression that he was unaware that a collector can confirm the validity of a CAC sticker on their website.

With regards to his wish about a public database for coins that were sticker rejected, only overwhelming public pressure can force the CAC to provide such a service, IMO.

 

Well I too can understand the reasons they do not do this - and yes one of them is the submissions. They might as well rake in money like NGC and PCGS - I am not saying there is anything wrong with this. PS - Yes I have and plan to use both - I really see nothing wrong with what any of them do.

The one thing I have not seen mentioned (and I am kind of surpised nobody mentioned it) - is just because a coin was sent to CAC and did not get a sticker - does that mean it is a bad coin or wrongly graded coin? I am sure CAC makes mistakes also. It almost seems like everybody assumes you sent a coin in and if it does not get a sticker, well there must be something wrong. When I say "wrong" I mean it in a bad way - over graded, cleaned or something like that. Where as it could be a really nice coin that just did not get a sticker - whatever the reason, but it would be nice to know. That brings up a question - do they tell the submitter why it does not get a sticker?

I think my biggest bug-a-boo is that it seems some tend to assume that well, it is a CAC coin so it must be the best of the best(or something like that). Just like some people assume PCGS or NGC graded coins are the best of the best. I just disagree with that type assumption. Still I am not knocking CAC I just think the concept can be done better. All in my humble little chubby opinion.

 

"That brings up a question - do they tell the submitter why it does not get a sticker?"

They told me, and they have told other collectors. To the best of my knowledge, you have to request this information be provided.

"I think my biggest bug-a-boo is that it seems some tend to assume that well, it is a CAC coin so it must be the best of the best(or something like that). Just like some people assume PCGS or NGC graded coins are the best of the best."

I think people are always going to make assumptions about things, and provided we all "buy the coin and not the holder and not the sticker", we'll be just fine.

 

That is good to hear - at least the submitter knows. Were you surprised by their answers? And did you agree with them?

Yes - buy the coin - not the holder or sticker. I know my estate will probably lose some money on my collection - but I got to enjoy them while here.

 

CAC should not have to provide information on NGC and PCGS slabs that do not meet their standards. In fact, CAC would be morons if they did so. Collectors or dealars will think twice about sending a coin to them, and this will lower their sales and profits. CAC is not a benevolent society, they are a for-profit service.

Now to an extent, I think they provide a need to the collector, and the bean on the slab may provide more coin value. But they are not the only criteria in determining coin quality. Not every beautiful coin needs the bean to be beautiful.

 

I was surprised by some, not surprised by others. I agreed with some, and I disagreed with others. Overall, I agreed with the vast majority of the CAC decisions on my coins, and those I disagreed on I understood the rationale for disagreement -- which is quite a bit more than I can say for the TPGs, it is worth noting.

FWIW, here is a summary of my predictions and results -- thought I had posted this in a thread here before, but couldn't find it in a quick search....

 

Hmmm. I've often thought there is more to it than that.

Here's what I mean... the flow-through of coins at CAC is miniscule compared to NGC / PCGS. The fees are lower. The total revenue is much, much lower.

But the principals at CAC are major, major playahs in the coin world. Market makers. Their profit motive, and profit engine, is not CAC.

I think they do CAC for money to some extent... but I think there are other reasons.

Thoughts ?

 

I notice a big difference in success rate PCGS (more than 2/3) vs. NGC (less than half).

What, if any, lesson do you draw from that (since you know the coins themselves) ?

 

"Gold sticker" means "exceeds standards" ?

I've never seen a gold sticker. I suppose they don't last long; the coin gets sent in for an upgrade. Slab gone, sticker gone.

 

If CAC was in it just for the money, they would have a pay service to see what coins were submitted but not beaned. Maybe it is in the works? I agree that there is more to it than what we can see.

 

You could be right - I am not a major player and can't really answer it. If I understand correctly I have to pay a fee to a dealer to send my coins into CAC. So their price and then one of their dealers fees - of course there are not within 100 miles of me. So I think the altruistic reasons are questionable in my mind.

You know they could create a database of coins that do not get a sticker. They could post a picture of the coin and their comments - and not information about the slab or the slab number. That would be cool - not really realistic, but cool. Maybe help others.

 

The only conclusion I'd be comfortable drawing is that I'm not as good choosing good-for-the-grade NGC holders as I am PCGS holders. I would shy away from any deeper conclusions until the sample size was larger.

 

Mark, when I submit coins to CAC for clients I don't charge any fees above the CAC fee charged to me (and reimbursement for my postage). Also, I have been told that at some point, with adequate references, collectors will be able to submit coins directly to CAC.