Byzantium Hyperpyron Andronicus II & Andronicus III

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by AussieCollector, May 25, 2018.

  1. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    Just wanting to show off my newest coin for the Byzantium collection

    This is the latest dated Byzantium coin in my collection by a significant margin (by 150 years). I was drawn to this coin for two reasons, the first because it was the last type of gold coin in the Byzantium Empire (I think Andronicus III's successor John V was the last to issue the Hyperpyron), and the second reason because Andronicus III was also the last Emperor to make a decent go at restoring the Empire.

    Mint: Constantinople
    Year: 1325 - 1328
    Obv: Virgin Mary with Andronicus II & Andronicus III standing either side
    Rev: Christ standing
    Weight: 3.89g
    Material: 11ct gold, mixed with silver and copper

    Supposedly VF, but these coins were pretty average to begin with.

    Obv.jpg Rev.jpg
     
    AussieCollector, May 25, 2018
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  3. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Very nice @AussieCollector ... cool lighting on the coin (I like the pic too). Coloring is cool with that 0.4583333333333333 Gold content, LOL. Gold is ALWAYS good for me!

    I am decrepid in the Byz category...here is a Silver w/ Jesus on it:

    upload_2018-5-25_9-24-40.png
    BZ Andronicus II - Michael IX 1295-1320 AR Basilikon 22mm 2.1g Constantinople Christ enthroned - Andronicus l Michael r labarum DOC V 1 Class VIII
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
    Alegandron, May 25, 2018
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  4. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Nice one, AC.

    I have a Andronicus I that is rarely posted.

    [​IMG]
    ANDRONICUS I COMNENUS (1183 - 1185 A.D.)
    TRACHY
    O: MP - ΘV. The Theotokos (Virgin Mary) standing facing on dais, holding bust of the infant Christ.
    R: ANΔPONIKOC ΔECΠOTHC / IC - XC. Andronicus standing facing, holding labarum and globus cruciger, being crowned by Christ to right, holding Gospels.
    Constantinople Mint
    2.95
    sb 1985
     
    Mat, May 25, 2018
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  5. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    Very nice coin for a difficult series! Here is one of mine, but still on the hunt for the kneeling emperor one:

    Byzantine Empire: Andronicus II Palaeologus, with Michael IX (1282-1328) AV Hyperpyron, Thessalonica (Sear-2396v; Bendall 207.2)

    Obv: Bust of the Virgin, orans, within city walls with six groups of towers; Ʞ - K
    Rev: Christ standing facing, crowning Andronicus and Michael kneeling to either side

    [​IMG]
     
    Quant.Geek, May 25, 2018
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  6. Milesofwho

    Milesofwho Omnivorous collector

    Yes, with his regent John VI.
    I have been looking for a hyperpyron with a really good obverse, but for Michael VIII instead of Andronicus. It seems that it’s harder to find Michael VIII’s hyperpyrons over Andronicus’s.
     
    Milesofwho, May 25, 2018
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  7. Milesofwho

    Milesofwho Omnivorous collector

    Also, here’s a contemporary Venetian grosso to go along with the basilikon. 994C3CBB-C6DD-46EA-B10B-EB78D5013D1D.jpeg 7E261CE5-7F45-44FF-A304-137911279393.jpeg Doge Pietro Gradenigo, 1289-1311.
     
    Milesofwho, May 25, 2018
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  8. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    I agree regarding gold - gold is always good :) And nice Basilikon

    Nice Trachy! Looks like one with high silver content.

    Thank you. What a fantastic coin you have too! Good detail, amazing colour. You can actually see almost everything.

    Yes, they exist - but they're not cheap - even for Hyperpyron standards. I would say Andronicus II with Michael IX are the most accessible of that period.

    So this is when the Venetians decided to ditch the Byzantium coinage for trade, is that correct?
     
    AussieCollector, May 25, 2018
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  9. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Nice!!! Closest I can get is an Andronicus II AE trachy:

    Screen Shot 2018-05-25 at 4.43.27 PM.jpg
     
    Severus Alexander, May 25, 2018
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  10. Milesofwho

    Milesofwho Omnivorous collector

    I concur with that. When I was at Baldwin’s over the summer of last year, they had about ten Andronicus hyperpyrons, but no Michael VIII ones.
    The Byzantine solidi lost their status as a universal trade coin when the debasement started. The grosso was first issued under Doge Enrico Dandolo, in the run-up to the Fourth Crusade. It had the purest silver percentage possible (98.5) at the time of its inception. It quickly became a trade coin. Serbian coins also copied the grosso. Later on, the supposed reason a 1/4 stavraton was not issued was that the grosso filled that void.
     
    Milesofwho, May 25, 2018
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  11. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    Nice trachy! Love the distinct artwork.

    Which period debasement? As I understand, Byzantium coins went through several phases of debasement and correction. I assume it was after the Komnenos period?
     
    AussieCollector, May 25, 2018
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  12. Milesofwho

    Milesofwho Omnivorous collector

    Actually, it was the period before, under Michael IV onwards. This table helps to show how serious it was. 1DC1241C-AAEC-48D1-A7B3-24F953AD8ECF.jpeg
    The paragraph underneath the table contradicts me on the issue of acceptability, but I am more ready to accept that as a formal answer rather than mine. By ditching it for trade do you mean making their own gold coins? In that case, Pietro was the second doge to have a Venetian ducat.
     
    Milesofwho, May 25, 2018
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  13. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    I had thought that Byzantium coinage was the preferred currency of trade for much of Europe until the Venetians (as the trade power in Western Europe) decided to ditch it and produce their own coins (which were silver, not gold) in the late 1200s/early 1300s.

    But that last line in the book seems to discount that understanding.
     
    AussieCollector, May 25, 2018
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  14. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Nice!
     
    randygeki, May 26, 2018
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