Byzantine is not my strong point - Can someone help me please?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Topcat7, Oct 13, 2015.

  1. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

    I know nothing about this coin (of mine). I 'suspect' it is Leo II (Edit: Imeant III - don't get old) and Constantine X but that is only a guess. (Edit: Sorry, I meant Constantine V.)

    Can someone help me attribute this coin, please?

    Magical Snap - 2015.08.30 07.26 - 226.jpg Magical Snap - 2015.08.30 07.26 - 227.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
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  3. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    What is the size and weight?
     
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  4. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

    AE23, 3.9 gm.
     
  5. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    I'm not very good with Byzantines, but the lack of exergual line/mint on the reverse makes me think it is from a later Byzantine emperor. Plus, although you didn't state the size, it looks like a rather small and light coin yet it is marked M (follis)... so that also makes me think it is not an earlier Byzantine.

    Some possibilities:

    [​IMG]
    Nicephorus I, with Stauracius. 802-811. Æ Follis (21.5mm, 4.56 g, 6h). Constantinople mint. Crowned facing busts of Nicephorus and Stauracius, each wearing chlamys; cross above / Large M; cross above, X/X/X to left, N/N/N to right, A below. DOC 5; SB 1607. VF, dark green-brown patina.

    [​IMG]
    Michael II the Amorian, with Theophilus. 820-829. Æ Follis (21mm, 7.64 g, 6h). Constantinople mint. Struck 821-829. Crowned facing busts of Michael, wearing chlamys, and Theophilus, wearing loros / Large M; cross above, X/X/X to left, N/N/N to right; A below. DOC 8; SB 1618 (Michael I and Theophylactus). VF, dark green patina.

    I found these by first quickly scanning Wildwinds, Byzantine by ruler, looking for similar obverses, M reverse, with the A monogram, and then searching for better examples in CNG (not "better", necessarily, but much easier to link in this post).

    I stopped looking after the second example so you might want to take up the Wildwinds search at that point. :)
     
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  6. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

    Thanks, T.I.F. -
    I actually did state the size, 'AE23' (Sorry, my apologies, I left off the 'mm'.)
    I am off to check 'Wildwinds'.
    Thanks, again.
     
  7. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    I see now, thanks. I had already typed my reply while you were posting the size. :)

    Maybe someone who knows their Byzantines will chime in. There are more possible matches on Wildwinds. There may not be enough detail on your coin to make a definitive statement.
     
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  8. arnoldoe

    arnoldoe Well-Known Member

    Pretty sure it's Leo V


    [​IMG]
    Leo V the Armenian, with Constantine. 813-820. Æ Follis (24mm, 4.78 g, 6h). Constantinople mint. Crowned facing busts of Leo and Constantine, each wearing chlamys / Large M; cross above, X/X/X to left, N/N/N to right, A below. DOC 7; SB 1630. VF, dark green patina.

    It looks like the same SCO above the bust as yours
     
  9. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

    Hi, Arnold.
    Thanks for that. Courtesy of T.I.F. I went through 'Wildwinds' and I had decided on SB 1516, but now that you have come up with SB 1630, I am going to have a closer look.
    (Please feel free to do so, too.)
     
  10. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

    @Arnold,
    Looking at the 'lapels' on Leo's 'attire' I am inclined away from SB1630, so I am thinking SB 1516 unless someone has a reason why I shouldn't be?
     
  11. arnoldoe

    arnoldoe Well-Known Member

    It has to be SB 1630, 1516 only has the letters SC between the crosses on their heads while yours and SB 1630 have the letters SCO
     
  12. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

    Mmmmmm - When I look at the coin on 'Wildwinds' that is attributed to SB 1516 it clearly has SCO between the crosses on their heads.
    Does this mean that an incorrect photo has been used on 'Wildwinds'?
     
  13. arnoldoe

    arnoldoe Well-Known Member

    ////
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
  14. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

    O.K. There is some doubt as to whether my coin 'complies with SB 1516, but there is no doubt that it 'complies' with SB 1630 - Correct?
    If the answer is yes, I should write on my 2x2 SB 1630 - do you agree? (and Leo V not Leo III.)
    This would also tie in with T.I.F.s comment of it not being Leo III because of "the lack of exergual line/mint on the reverse" leading her to believe that the coin belonged to a later ruler.
     
  15. arnoldoe

    arnoldoe Well-Known Member

    edit --- I have no idea


    SB 1630 supposedly has 3 different legend types
    LEON S CONST or LEON SC CONST or LEON CON
    so.. its either 1516 or 1630 :angelic:
     
  16. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

    Sorry, we both 'posted' together.
    My coin appears to have a letter after 'LEO' (in the legend) to the left of Leo's bust, which is evident on 1516 but is not shown on 1630.
    Therefore SB 1516?
     
  17. arnoldoe

    arnoldoe Well-Known Member

    Yeah, i would go with 1516,
    they seem miss-attributed quite often..:angelic:
     
  18. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

  19. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Dulce et Decorum est....

    I always liked the trimmed ornate bust on Eastern Roman coins from the 8th-10th centuries.
    Very cool coin, TC!
     
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  20. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

    Hi, M.M. Thanks for stopping in.
     
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